American Tournament

[JBB]

Rufus, you are spot on! I have said on previous posts
that CWM wasn’t tough enough on this team. You control the effort by granting playing time. Several on this forum used excuse of “today’s AAU” type kids. I refuse to believe that, Cronin, Mark Few and even Sean Miller get more effort s out their players. Coaches don’t need to verbalize abuse their players to get their attention. It’s about setting a standard and not giving in to substandard play
FYI, we have declined to the 3rd best D1 basketball program in the city, X, NKU and us. Brannon and the AD contributed to this rebuild. But CWM needs to set the bar high and not worry about the portal or the local kid getting enough PT and his shot at glory. I would have played Reed and Skillings a heck of a lot more. Now we’re worried about transfers???? Really??? When do we start acting like an elite program???

[longtimefan]

He hasn’t even brought in his 2nd recruit class yet.

[Rufus]

I was very much on board with the CWM hiring and have been rooting for him to succeed. I was even in the same boat as many others on this forum that was constantly saying to wait for the time to when He has a stable of his own recruits. Then let's see what he can do. But after watching this season unfold as it has I'm of the opinion that He is enamored with the idea of being the head coach of a school with such a rich tradition but is over his head in teaching defensive strategies, rebounding techniques, and especially motivating players. He tolerates too much ineffective and would even go as far as detrimental play from players before making changes. He has shown no ability to strategize against the defenses he's faced or to make any in game adjustments. Someone mentioned that DDJ was ineffective against anyone taller than he assigned to guard him. That's been the case all season and yet no one on this staff can't devise plays to get him open? In fact I see no offensive plays being run at all other than passing the ball to get to one of our best shooters.
I'm afraid that going into the B12 with these players and playing the same scheme that we are currently employing that we are going to languish in the basement.
Someone else has said it but it's a fact we've seen the same product with no one, coaches or players trying to conform to the others strengths and getting better. Any coach can recognize what the opposing teams are doing to defend your better players but to not do anything different to counter that even after seeing it six times and standing pat with the same strategy is crazy.

[bearcatbret]

Bret, why school of cheaters ? Whaddaya know ?

I doubt if they are cheating this year. I think that starting last year, it is a free for all with NIL and lack of oversight. I will clarify that we believe that they have covered up internal player issues in the past, every past coach of theirs has moved on to bigger programs and ultimately got busted for illegal recruiting and other violations. I was just referring to the big picture of their program historically.

[Chewbacca2099]

Brannen had the benefit of playing with Cronin coached players. I think there has been a big dropoff since on effort and hustle. Look how well Cronin is doing now when he doesn't have to recruit so hard to get high end players. Wish he would have stayed until we got into the Big12, we could be elite again.

[Gmann]

A couple other thoughts on yesterday's game....

Skillings is clearly the type of talent that can move the whole program forward. He brings the energy and looks on offense to get to the basket first before settling for a 3 which he can also do well. Too many of the current players take the lazy way out with contested 3's making us so easy to defend. Skillings also has the athleticism to rebound and puts in the effort. He is not afraid to get physical on either end of the floor. We need more of that. He still needs to improve on defense as he is too often off balance and flailing around. I think he will get better there because he's trying.

Also I also really appreciate Oguama's effort yesterday. That dude is giving it everything he has all the time. He's still a work in progress offensively but man is he active and athletic. I hope he stays.

I am really curious to see what happens with Reed.. You can see he's lost confidence and is barely getting any PT. I hope he can be more than what we've seen so far.

[longtimefan]

The thing that disturbs me about the Houston loss is that Miller has now seen Houston 6 times in two years and still has no clue how to beat them. Even Brannen beat Houston and Memphis one time each in his first year. My history following UC basketball goes back to Huggins. I cannot remember one team that dominated Huggins or Cronin the way that Memphis and Houston are dominating Miller. What is Miller going to do when he gets in the BIG 12? There are teams in the BIG 12 that can beat Houston.

UC only hit 13 shots against Houston. They normally hit about 26 shots a game. This UC team has players that DO NOT PLAY BIG IN BIG GAMES. Likewise, Miller has a terrible track record playing against nationally competitive teams. This was an embarrassing loss. Miller has five of them on the season (NKU, Ohio State, Houston at home, ECU, and Houston in conference tourney). There is something very wrong with Miller's basketball constructs and his system for preparing his players. These problems occur mostly on the defensive end. All game long against Houston, UC was a step slow, did not contest shots, and had problems getting around the screens. This late in the season and this team is still a mess.

I believe that Miller deserves a chance. I sincerely believe that. However, with every national game that UC plays, it becomes clear that Miller has problems competing with the nation's more competitive teams. Is he really the coach the program needs going forward? That question is also disturbing.

Brannen had Trevon Scott and Jarron Cumberland, and that Houston team was nowhere near the level of this Houston team. Three Brannen guys are still getting major minutes, guys that didn’t get an offer from UC when Mick was here. Give the coach a chance with his own guys.

[leo from jersey]

I was at the game yesterday. We were not ready to play out of the gate and as someone mentioned, we were a step slow all day. I thought we looked tired out there and made a lot of mental unforced errors.

Some additional observations: You can't shoot 26% from the field in a fist half against anyone much less the #1 team in the country and win. We did that twice. Our FG% actually went down in the second half.

David DeJulius is ineffective against defenders that are long and taller than he is. He was a no show in the tournament scoring column however you can't blame him for that. It's a bad matchup for him and Wes doesn't really control that.

Houston goes 10 deep and there's not a lot of falloff from the A team to the B team. We saw that when they expanded their lead after Sasser went down. Houston did that to us and only shot 20% from the 3pt range. in the game. They won by 21 but too be honest in the gym it seemed like it should been 30+.

Jarace Walker is much bigger than you think. Remind me of Kevin Durant in that he's kind of all arms and shoulders. He'll be a lottery pick probably although he didn't have the greatest game yesterday.

Back to UC, Vik was not healthy yesterday going into the game and was in visible pain in the second half after going down in a loose ball scramble. He gutted it out the whole game and you could see on his face in the second half that he was hurt. I'm not sure what the injury was but I'm guessing a groin issue. He was holding his left arm below his waist band a good portion of the 2nd half. I think the reason he didn't dunk the ball that rimmed out is because he couldn't.

Reagrdless of Houston's defense, we couldn't hit the broadside of a barn yesterday. When we did get a decent look they weren't going down. We had some three balls that were perfectly on line and went short in that game. That was one of the signs to me that were were tired. It's not like they were out late partying or something becuase there's not a lot going on around the team hotel in downtown Ft. Worth.

Houston fans outnumbered everyone else at the tournament. The place holds 13K for basketball and I'd say about the place was at 40% capacity for our game and 90% of those attending fans were Houston people. UC fans did not travel well for this tournament at all which is a shame because the arena is pretty nice even though the overall location is terrible for a tournament. Glad we're leaving the AAC if for no other reason than they keep putting the tourney in the farthest geographical location away from the conference's middle point. it's just stupid on their part.

I'm sure I'll think of more later.

perhaps the players should have been rested more when it was obvious Temple would never come back and had quit. Of course, big leads have been given away this year, but Temple was done much earlier than when the subbing started.

Houston also played the day before and had a tougher game than the Cats did. Temple while trying, was mentally and physically dismayed over losing their best player.
Ty Cobb stated something to the effect of: "the most important part of a great ballplayer's body is above his shoulders." Decades later, however amusing it may sound, Yogi Berra added his now famous phrase, "90% of the game is half mental. You did mention as did others that the Cats were not ready to play.

To score so few points in a half, even while being tired and hurt, there had to be something else. Houston is a very good team and like the bearcats from the past, the victory was almost conceded before the tip off. It took Huggs till Nov. 25, 1989 to have his team totally believe although he was building on it.
We all want to see that and my hope is for that. Beat X next year and it will make whatever happens in the Big 12 tolerable.

[leeraymond]

I was at the game yesterday. We were not ready to play out of the gate and as someone mentioned, we were a step slow all day. I thought we looked tired out there and made a lot of mental unforced errors.

Some additional observations: You can't shoot 26% from the field in a fist half against anyone much less the #1 team in the country and win. We did that twice. Our FG% actually went down in the second half.

David DeJulius is ineffective against defenders that are long and taller than he is. He was a no show in the tournament scoring column however you can't blame him for that. It's a bad matchup for him and Wes doesn't really control that.

Houston goes 10 deep and there's not a lot of falloff from the A team to the B team. We saw that when they expanded their lead after Sasser went down. Houston did that to us and only shot 20% from the 3pt range. in the game. They won by 21 but too be honest in the gym it seemed like it should been 30+.

Jarace Walker is much bigger than you think. Remind me of Kevin Durant in that he's kind of all arms and shoulders. He'll be a lottery pick probably although he didn't have the greatest game yesterday.

Back to UC, Vik was not healthy yesterday going into the game and was in visible pain in the second half after going down in a loose ball scramble. He gutted it out the whole game and you could see on his face in the second half that he was hurt. I'm not sure what the injury was but I'm guessing a groin issue. He was holding his left arm below his waist band a good portion of the 2nd half. I think the reason he didn't dunk the ball that rimmed out is because he couldn't.

Reagrdless of Houston's defense, we couldn't hit the broadside of a barn yesterday. When we did get a decent look they weren't going down. We had some three balls that were perfectly on line and went short in that game. That was one of the signs to me that were were tired. It's not like they were out late partying or something becuase there's not a lot going on around the team hotel in downtown Ft. Worth.

Houston fans outnumbered everyone else at the tournament. The place holds 13K for basketball and I'd say about the place was at 40% capacity for our game and 90% of those attending fans were Houston people. UC fans did not travel well for this tournament at all which is a shame because the arena is pretty nice even though the overall location is terrible for a tournament. Glad we're leaving the AAC if for no other reason than they keep putting the tourney in the farthest geographical location away from the conference's middle point. it's just stupid on their part.

I'm sure I'll think of more later.

Very good and enlightening assessment.

[Lobot]

I was at the game yesterday. We were not ready to play out of the gate and as someone mentioned, we were a step slow all day. I thought we looked tired out there and made a lot of mental unforced errors.

Some additional observations: You can't shoot 26% from the field in a first half against anyone much less the #1 team in the country and win. We did that twice. Our FG% actually went down in the second half.

David DeJulius is ineffective against defenders that are long and taller than he is. He was a no show in the tournament scoring column however you can't blame him for that. It's a bad matchup for him and Wes doesn't really control that.

Houston goes 10 deep and there's not a lot of falloff from the A team to the B team. We saw that when they expanded their lead after Sasser went down. Houston did that to us and only shot 20% from the 3pt range in the game. They won by 21 but too be honest in the gym it seemed like it should been 30+.

Jarace Walker is much bigger than you think. Remind me of Kevin Durant in that he's kind of all arms and shoulders. He'll be a lottery pick probably although he didn't have the greatest game yesterday.

Back to UC, Vik was not healthy yesterday going into the game and was in visible pain in the second half after going down in a loose ball scramble. He gutted it out the whole game and you could see on his face in the second half that he was hurt. I'm not sure what the injury was but I'm guessing a groin issue. He was holding his left arm below his waist band a good portion of the 2nd half. I think the reason he didn't dunk the ball that rimmed out is because he couldn't.

Regardless of Houston's defense, we couldn't hit the broadside of a barn yesterday. When we did get a decent look they weren't going down. We had some three balls that were perfectly on line and went short in that game. That was one of the signs to me that were were tired. It's not like they were out late partying or something because there's not a lot going on around the team hotel in downtown Ft. Worth.

Houston fans outnumbered everyone else at the tournament. The place holds 13K for basketball and I'd say about the place was at 40% capacity for our game and 90% of those attending fans were Houston people. UC fans did not travel well for this tournament at all which is a shame because the arena is pretty nice even though the overall location is terrible for a tournament. Glad we're leaving the AAC if for no other reason than they keep putting the tourney in the farthest geographical location away from the conference's middle point. it's just stupid on their part.

I'm sure I'll think of more later.

[leo from jersey]

youre actually proving my point. A coach like Huggs can take less talented guys and make them great players through teaching them hustle, defense and coaching them up on in-game situations. There is no evidence to support Wes has or can do that.

I’m not implying this current roster has final four talent, but to act like UC has no talent on its current roster is nonsensical.

“Guts win more games than ability.”

“Coaching isn’t a great mystery. It’s Just hard work, determination, and inspiration at the right moment.”

Robert Zuppke (College football Hall of fame coach at Illinois)

[leo from jersey]

there is no game plan. The only thing this team does is dribble down the court and fire up contested 3s. No movement. No consistent focal point of offense. Horrible defensive sets.

and if guys don’t rebound with effort…sit them. You’re gonna lose anyway, might as well set the tone. Skillings comes in, rebounds with effort and lessens the lead. Then back to the bench. Maybe practice nothing but rebounding…like Huggs would do when he was pissed.

2 full seasons and nothing has changed.

I can't disagree with any of that. I could go on but I have lamented the weak me first efforts for a long time. Every word you said was right and I am glad someone has the balls to speak out, We do want a winning team and although the record says over 20 wins, most of us see the play on the court lacks effort, coaching and heart.

[bearcat1518]

You're ranking has nothing to do with Basketball Skills... UC has had a ton of 3 Star Players over the last 30yrs who had more TALENT than the above 4 star players you mentioned....

What was Kenyon Martin's ranking coming into UC..? And you're telling all of us Kenyon was not more skilled than the above mentioned... Thats Ridiculous!

youre actually proving my point. A coach like Huggs can take less talented guys and make them great players through teaching them hustle, defense and coaching them up on in-game situations. There is no evidence to support Wes has or can do that.

I’m not implying this current roster has final four talent, but to act like UC has no talent on its current roster is nonsensical.

[bearcat1518]

a team that's really good without there best player...someone said snakebit and that's correct

no one game plans to miss open shots and get killed on the boards

what should the game plan have been?

there is no game plan. The only thing this team does is dribble down the court and fire up contested 3s. No movement. No consistent focal point of offense. Horrible defensive sets.

and if guys don’t rebound with effort…sit them. You’re gonna lose anyway, might as well set the tone. Skillings comes in, rebounds with effort and lessens the lead. Then back to the bench. Maybe practice nothing but rebounding…like Huggs would do when he was pissed.

2 full seasons and nothing has changed.

[leeraymond]

The thing that disturbs me about the Houston loss is that Miller has now seen Houston 6 times in two years and still has no clue how to beat them. Even Brannen beat Houston and Memphis one time each in his first year. My history following UC basketball goes back to Huggins. I cannot remember one team that dominated Huggins or Cronin the way that Memphis and Houston are dominating Miller. What is Miller going to do when he gets in the BIG 12? There are teams in the BIG 12 that can beat Houston.

UC only hit 13 shots against Houston. They normally hit about 26 shots a game. This UC team has players that DO NOT PLAY BIG IN BIG GAMES. Likewise, Miller has a terrible track record playing against nationally competitive teams. This was an embarrassing loss. Miller has five of them on the season (NKU, Ohio State, Houston at home, ECU, and Houston in conference tourney). There is something very wrong with Miller's basketball constructs and his system for preparing his players. These problems occur mostly on the defensive end. All game long against Houston, UC was a step slow, did not contest shots, and had problems getting around the screens. This late in the season and this team is still a mess.

I believe that Miller deserves a chance. I sincerely believe that. However, with every national game that UC plays, it becomes clear that Miller has problems competing with the nation's more competitive teams. Is he really the coach the program needs going forward? That question is also disturbing.