NIT picking

[sedz]

leeraymond I'm playfully ribbing you about comparing Cronin's record against "no talent" Houston teams with Wes's record against top 5 teams.

I'm not that surprised about the Big 12's performance. As I pointed out in the other thread, Iowa St has a bad offense and it was only a matter of time until someone scored on them. We gave every other team some trouble, which means any tourney team could do the same.

[longtimefan]

Coach Miller has taken much criticism here and many have reminisced about where favored former coaches may have taken the team in this inaugural Big 12 season. I’m surprised Bob Huggins name hasn’t been mentioned in these recent posts and turned to his record at West Virginia for some perspective.




In his sixth year at West Virginia, Bob Huggins took the Mountaineers into the Big 12. That first year WV went 6-12 in conference play, followed by 9-9 and 11-7 conference records in the following years. Then, Huggs went on to have three consecutive 2nd place conference records, but also two seasons with 4-14 finishes and he was 7-11 in his final year. Overall, while at WV, Huggs was 97-100 in the Big 12.




In contrast, UC, in Wes Miller’s 3rd season with the Bearcats, posted a 7-11 Big 12 first season. It’s just worth considering.

Well said. Huggins is the only coach to never really be bashed here. Every other coach since has seen the detractors, many of whom seem to always criticize no matter who the coach is. Cronin was attacked mercilessly on this board. Some people would just get rid of CWM now, lose our recruits, have our best guys transfer out, and start over, again. The next time we’ll get a real coach, don’t worry…. We’re lucky to have coach Wes Miller here, and I’ll admit to sometimes criticizing his substitution patterns. What I’ve seen is constant progress each year since he arrived, and looking ahead I expect that to continue

[condo52]

Coach Miller has taken much criticism here and many have reminisced about where favored former coaches may have taken the team in this inaugural Big 12 season. I’m surprised Bob Huggins name hasn’t been mentioned in these recent posts and turned to his record at West Virginia for some perspective.




In his sixth year at West Virginia, Bob Huggins took the Mountaineers into the Big 12. That first year WV went 6-12 in conference play, followed by 9-9 and 11-7 conference records in the following years. Then, Huggs went on to have three consecutive 2nd place conference records, but also two seasons with 4-14 finishes and he was 7-11 in his final year. Overall, while at WV, Huggs was 97-100 in the Big 12.




In contrast, UC, in Wes Miller’s 3rd season with the Bearcats, posted a 7-11 Big 12 first season. It’s just worth considering.

[leeraymond]

Kelvin Sampson lost 11 games and missed the tournament in his third year at Houston. He was no rookie, having been a pro or head college coach for 30 mother falcon years. Totally embarrassing.

Yeah, you have a point. However, Kelvin Sampson had no talent to work with when he got to Houston. Also, he did not have the benefit of going through the portal. You are reasoning that Sampson's and Miller's situations were similar, but nothing can be further from the truth. Also, concerning first year coaches that were highly successful in their first year in the BIG 12, how about Mark Pope from BYU (another NCAA Tournament team)?

Look, I like Miller. He has an ability to get his players to play very hard on every possession. Also, his players seem to truly like him. Maybe that is why they play so hard for him. Additionally, with his friendly personality, I would assume that he is well-liked by the administration. However, Miller has a problem understanding how to win games. Some of his losses are puzzling. Nevertheless, he is a Bearcat and I am on his side. I am rooting for him. I hope that he is able to GROW into the job. That is what bothers me. I have NOT seen any coaching growth from Miller since he has been at UC. I have seen him bring in better players, and in many of those games the players have won the game DESPITE the coaching.

Changing conversations a little, what do you all think about the BIG BAD BIG 12? Iowa State was knocked out last night. In the second weekend of Post-Season play, there is only ONE BIG 12 team left in the country. The last team left in Post-Season play is Houston and they play Duke tonight. Hopefully, Houston can get the win. Over-and-out.

[red_n_black_attack]

What did Wes take over? The remnants of a team that lost twice to Houston by 38 and 37, and those games weren’t as close as the score indicated. JDIII was probably the best player on the roster. It was a train wreck.

That was still better than Mick's first year. Wes had benefit of the portal or what has morphed into The Portal instead of getting football player walk-ons. Nonetheless, the point is Wes is a good coach and I feel that UC is in the right direction with him at the helm.

[longtimefan]

What did Wes take over? The remnants of a team that lost twice to Houston by 38 and 37, and those games weren’t as close as the score indicated. JDIII was probably the best player on the roster. It was a train wreck.

[sedz]

I wonder what the results would be over multiple games.

You don't have to wonder. Sampson actually is 0-2 against Harvard. He lost to Tommy Amaker twice in his first three seasons. How does that guy still have a job? I'm sure the Houston administration is taking notice.

[sedz]

Kelvin Sampson lost 11 games and missed the tournament in his third year at Houston. He was no rookie, having been a pro or head college coach for 30 mother falcon years. Totally embarrassing.

[leeraymond]

Both Cronin and Miller inherited dumpster fires. It wasn't until Mick's 5th season (2010-11) that he had a KenPom defensive efficiency in the Top 30. His teams stayed there from that point on. In his 3rd season, UC had the #108 defensive efficiency playing in the BE. This is Miller's 3rd season. They finished at #16, while playing in the B12.

This season's squad was a very good defensive team. Saying Miller doesn't know what to do at that end is wildly off target.

If you look at the 2023-24 NCAA scoring defense rankings, UC is ranked 68 and it gave up 68 points / game. In the conference, UC ranked 4th and gave up 69.3 / game. By the way for you defensive purists, you will be glad to know that all the teams coming from the AAC ranked in the top 5 for scoring defense in the BIG 12 (Houston 1, Iowa State 2, UCF 3, and UC 4). Not bad. The teams from the AAC were better than projected (at least defensively). Miller's defensive numbers are not bad, but giving up 69.3 points a game is probably not good enough to win championships. By the way, UC only scored 69.6 points / game in the conference (10th place).

During Cronin's break-out year in the BIG East, UC gave up 58.2 points / game. That was the best in the BIG East for 2010-11. During Cronin's third year in the BIG East, UC gave up 66.3 points / game (5th place).

Two points: 1) Miller had MUCH MORE to work with his first year than what Cronin had. Think about what Miller had: the defensive player of the year in the SEC (Ado), one of the best shot blockers in NCAA history (Koval), all types of high-major D-1 experience (Ody Wake Forest, DeJulius Michigan, Ado Miss St, Davenport and Adams-Woods Cincinnati, and Newman Clemson). So you cannot say that Miller inherited a dumpster fire. Miller had some ball players. He just did not know how to use them to get wins; 2) It is not as though Miller is some young inexperienced coach. Miller has been a head coach for 13 mother $%#@# years. Come on Swilsonsp4, you got to admit it, 13 years is a long time to be a head coach. Miller is NO rookie. I know, I know that this was UC's first year in the BIG 12 and there is going to be a competitive learning curve to adapt to. On the other hand, how do you explain Houston and Texas Tech who also have coaches coming from lesser leagues? Those two teams made the NCAAs.

I want UC to win every game. However, that is not realistic. Nevertheless, if Miller can get the losses down to 9 to 10 a year would probably put the team over the hump. Regardless of what we are talking about on this blog, next year is going to show us a lot concerning what direction the program is going in.

[leeraymond]

Kelvin Sampson and Mick Cronin are both 0-1 against Harvard and Tommy Amaker. Wes Miller has never lost to Harvard.

I wonder what the results would be over multiple games.

[sedz]

Kelvin Sampson and Mick Cronin are both 0-1 against Harvard and Tommy Amaker. Wes Miller has never lost to Harvard.

[leo from jersey]

Both Cronin and Miller inherited dumpster fires. It wasn't until Mick's 5th season (2010-11) that he had a KenPom defensive efficiency in the Top 30. His teams stayed there from that point on. In his 3rd season, UC had the #108 defensive efficiency playing in the BE. This is Miller's 3rd season. They finished at #16, while playing in the B12.

This season's squad was a very good defensive team. Saying Miller doesn't know what to do at that end is wildly off target.

agree 100%. The only concern is that CWM often seems to get too personal with certain players and it perhaps clouds his judgement. The problem at the end of the games was only one didn't freeze in the moment. The final minutes were too big for a couple of players, but hopefully another year will solve that.

[swilsonsp4]

I disagree with you concerning this year's team being as good as any Cronin team. This year's team had more talent, perhaps, than most of Cronin's UC teams. However, there is one big difference, Cronin's teams won games because they knew how to play defense. Here is some food for thought concerning Cronin's UC teams: 1) 6 seasons with over 25 wins; 2) back-to-back 30 win seasons; 3) 9 consecutive NCAA Tournaments; 4) one Sweet 16; and 5) .668 win percentage. Miller is no where near the type of coach that Cronin is and was at UC. Cronin knew how to win games. Miller stands on the sidelines and wonder why his team cannot get a stop.

Next season, with all of the talent that Miller is going to have, UC is STILL going to struggle to get stops. Also, UC will end up being on the bubble again. The conversations that we are having now about Miller's teams, we will have the same conversations next season. Like I said before, UC has the talent. There is no doubt about that. UC had the talent this year and last year. However, Miller is the wildcard. Until he learns how to play pick-and-roll-defense, how to defend against cutters and slashers, and how to defend big men that can play on the perimeter, we will be back in this sad damn space again next year.

One last thing. Cronin's UC teams routinely beat Houston and Kelvin Sampson. Miller's UC teams have played Houston 7 or 8 times now and are 0-7 or 0-8.

Both Cronin and Miller inherited dumpster fires. It wasn't until Mick's 5th season (2010-11) that he had a KenPom defensive efficiency in the Top 30. His teams stayed there from that point on. In his 3rd season, UC had the #108 defensive efficiency playing in the BE. This is Miller's 3rd season. They finished at #16, while playing in the B12.

This season's squad was a very good defensive team. Saying Miller doesn't know what to do at that end is wildly off target.

[leeraymond]

San Francisco routinely beat UCLA and John Wooden. Wes Miller is undefeated against San Francisco.

Wes Miller did NOT play against the guy that coached San Francisco during the Wooden era. However, both Cronin and Miller have played against Sampson multiple times. What were the results?

[sedz]

Cronin's UC teams routinely beat Houston and Kelvin Sampson. Miller's UC teams have played Houston 7 or 8 times now and are 0-7 or 0-8.

San Francisco routinely beat UCLA and John Wooden. Wes Miller is undefeated against San Francisco.