Who is our next UC coach?

[leo from jersey]

Two posts ago, Leeraymond suggested Cunningham did not look deep enough to see the number of losses every year. That suggests the AD of a major university did no more than a less than average fan with a passing interest in a coach. I can't understand that logic or cynicism. That isn't a fair assertion against Cunningham.

In other threads, particularly related to football, there are repeated statements by multiple posters that the way we can be successful at UC is to hire up and coming coaches and let them learn and grow into the job. At the time of this hire, Coach Miller was considered a steal and a significant "get" by a lot of folks, even those in the business. Well, we got an up and coming coach. He should receive more patience from everyone, the administration included. He represents the school very well. He has been a cheerleader for the city. He is continuing to grow. I cant believe people want to fire the guy so we can go back to Brannen-level ball or worse. Let him go, and you can't count on 4-5 years of garbage ball as we try to regroup for the third time in a generation.

what if we get a new coach who goes back to Huggins ball or Ed Jucker?

[JohnFrancis]

By the end of the year we might be between Brannen-level and Doug Gottlieb -level basketball....

[leeraymond]

Two posts ago, Leeraymond suggested Cunningham did not look deep enough to see the number of losses every year. That suggests the AD of a major university did no more than a less than average fan with a passing interest in a coach. I can't understand that logic or cynicism. That isn't a fair assertion against Cunningham.

In other threads, particularly related to football, there are repeated statements by multiple posters that the way we can be successful at UC is to hire up and coming coaches and let them learn and grow into the job. At the time of this hire, Coach Miller was considered a steal and a significant "get" by a lot of folks, even those in the business. Well, we got an up and coming coach. He should receive more patience from everyone, the administration included. He represents the school very well. He has been a cheerleader for the city. He is continuing to grow. I cant believe people want to fire the guy so we can go back to Brannen-level ball or worse. Let him go, and you can't count on 4-5 years of garbage ball as we try to regroup for the third time in a generation.

Three points. Firstly, Miller was a very hot commodity four years ago. The main attribute about Miller that was communicated nationally was that he "had the most wins of any coach under 40". Pay close attention to what I am about to write next because I find it amazing. John Brannen was officially relieved of his duties on April 9, 2021. Wes Miller was hired April 14, 2021. That is just a five (5) day interval between getting rid of one coach and hiring another one. You don't find that strange? I do. It only took UC 5 days to find a replacement coach? How much research can you do in 5 days if you are doing a full, thorough, and comprehensive search? I have never heard of a coach being hired that fast before. Typically, it takes weeks maybe months to find someone that is a good fit for a school. With Miller, we are talking about five days; FIVE days.

Secondly, the devil is in the details. All that glitters is NOT gold. Miller's win-lost history, his defensive coaching capabilities, and his team's defensive scoring numbers based on NCAA data bases were NOT impressive at all. Given UC's defensive history in basketball, Miller's capabilities did not seem to be a good fit for UC.

Lastly, in no way am I suggesting that Miller should be fired. In fact, if you read one of my earlier posts, you would have seen that I strongly think that no matter what happens this year, he should be given at least one more year. I am not really an advocate of taking a man's livelihood away because I would NOT want anyone or anything to take my livelihood away. On the other hand, I know lousy coaching when I see it. In closing, I like Miller. I really do. However, Coach Miller has yet to demonstrate that he can consistently win at the high-major level. For instance, since last year, UC has lost 7 of 11 home games in the conference (64%). That is a BIG problem. Most fans are NOT willing to look the other way on that one. Neither am I.

I have one question for you. How much time is enough for Miller to prove himself?

[red_n_black_attack]

Wes needs help or needs to go. Hire a defensive specialist and hand him the reins, or hand the defense to an assistant

As to the shot doctor they brought in, either have him start diagnosing, ir stop what ge has messed up

[UC4me]

(I messed up the quote function. This is replying to leeraymond.)

I did not mean to suggest you personally advocated for his firing. That is what I intended by the paragraph separation and referencing other posters. I concur you are not calling for his head right now.

As for your point about the 5 days, I see that very differently. If Brannen had become suddenly incapacitated after doing a good job (say, a health reason) and then we hired a guy after 5 days, I would agree with you. The likely situation, though, is that Cunningham knew for weeks Brannen was going to be fired and had been hard at work behind the scenes working to identify the right guy. Many have said before for all of the major coaches, the AD should always have a running list of candidates in case a coach needed replacing. Far from being a mark of a rash decision or being a bad AD, I think the hiring in 5 days actually displays competence and preparation on the job.

We are still quite new in a P-4 conference. We entered the conference with G-5 talent. I am not surprised we have not done as well as any of us would have liked. That should be expected. We have to expect growing pains entering such a situation.

As to your question about how much time to give him, he has had about 2.5 years. He had some rebuilding to do after the Brannen debacle and had to do so entering a new, much more powerful conference. I would give him 5 years. That seems reasonable given the circumstances. I know for sure there are a whole lot of people on this board who would disagree with that sentiment.

[Gmann]

Wes needs help or needs to go. Hire a defensive specialist and hand him the reins, or hand the defense to an assistant

As to the shot doctor they brought in, either have him start diagnosing, ir stop what ge has messed up

I agree wholeheartedly that Miller needs help. I think his strengths are his communication, energy and recruiting but definitely not in-game management. I would suggest that the offense is where he needs the most help. The defense is at least above average but the offense is historically bad.

This conference is full of experienced, successful coaches. We are at a distinct disadvantage.

[leo from jersey]

(I messed up the quote function. This is replying to leeraymond.)

I did not mean to suggest you personally advocated for his firing. That is what I intended by the paragraph separation and referencing other posters. I concur you are not calling for his head right now.

As for your point about the 5 days, I see that very differently. If Brannen had become suddenly incapacitated after doing a good job (say, a health reason) and then we hired a guy after 5 days, I would agree with you. The likely situation, though, is that Cunningham knew for weeks Brannen was going to be fired and had been hard at work behind the scenes working to identify the right guy. Many have said before for all of the major coaches, the AD should always have a running list of candidates in case a coach needed replacing. Far from being a mark of a rash decision or being a bad AD, I think the hiring in 5 days actually displays competence and preparation on the job.

We are still quite new in a P-4 conference. We entered the conference with G-5 talent. I am not surprised we have not done as well as any of us would have liked. That should be expected. We have to expect growing pains entering such a situation.

As to your question about how much time to give him, he has had about 2.5 years. He had some rebuilding to do after the Brannen debacle and had to do so entering a new, much more powerful conference. I would give him 5 years. That seems reasonable given the circumstances. I know for sure there are a whole lot of people on this board who would disagree with that sentiment.

The problem I see right now goes beyond the poor play and losses. It is that under his leadership the team is far from a team. CWM team as an individual style of play and looking out for themselves.. Terry Nelson commented on it. if your job on a play is to set a screen - then set it. This can be changed by a good coach. He brought these players in. He had to know their style. Is the practice environment one of "me first hero ball". He seldom speaks of team concepts on interviews. It is just these are good kids and they try hard. You can try as hard as you can, but if there is no desire to play as a team or no team building, you get the losses which the Cats are experiencing. It isn't about talent. It is how they play or the lack of play as a team. Your guards can't be dribbling for 20 seconds and go back and forth trying to get to the rim. Then they throw an off balance pass to a shooter who has no screening help and they have to jack up a hurried shot. Then posters blame them and not the lack of a floor leader. The lack of a floor leader has been noticed for years now with Miller's recruits. They are special is all we hear - either NBA bound or from a famous family. Miller picked them or were what was available to be had. He had the same problem with some which he inherited as a local kid became a self-centered kid. Sure, it takes time to build a winner, but a coach who is able to get a job at a school such as UC must have a system in place. This squad has a total lack of direction. Sure shots falling will cure our concerns, but there is a reason the shots are not falling. Most, if not all D1 kids and many below that level can hit a shoot. Heck I am in my 70s legally blind, new knees and paralyzed in my right hand and I can hit shots playing with my grandkids. What type of culture is at the practices. There is an old cliche "You play as you practice".

[leeraymond]

(I messed up the quote function. This is replying to leeraymond.)

I did not mean to suggest you personally advocated for his firing. That is what I intended by the paragraph separation and referencing other posters. I concur you are not calling for his head right now.

As for your point about the 5 days, I see that very differently. If Brannen had become suddenly incapacitated after doing a good job (say, a health reason) and then we hired a guy after 5 days, I would agree with you. The likely situation, though, is that Cunningham knew for weeks Brannen was going to be fired and had been hard at work behind the scenes working to identify the right guy. Many have said before for all of the major coaches, the AD should always have a running list of candidates in case a coach needed replacing. Far from being a mark of a rash decision or being a bad AD, I think the hiring in 5 days actually displays competence and preparation on the job.

We are still quite new in a P-4 conference. We entered the conference with G-5 talent. I am not surprised we have not done as well as any of us would have liked. That should be expected. We have to expect growing pains entering such a situation.

As to your question about how much time to give him, he has had about 2.5 years. He had some rebuilding to do after the Brannen debacle and had to do so entering a new, much more powerful conference. I would give him 5 years. That seems reasonable given the circumstances. I know for sure there are a whole lot of people on this board who would disagree with that sentiment.

I really do not have the energy and the will to turn this into a blown out full debate. You bring up some good points. However, I have three thoughts in response to your comments. Firstly, I cannot respond to what Cunningham's thought process was and at what time he had made up his mind to fire Brannen. I was NOT there. All I can comment on is that it seems strange that it only took five days to OFFICIALLY hire another coach. I know that Dennis Gates (U of Missouri) was also considered for the job when he was at Cleveland State. By the way, has anybody taken a look at Gates' background? Man, I had no clue that this guy has NBA experience and he has held numerous Power 4 assistant coaching positions. He is currently 13-3 overall and 2-1 in SEC play. Also, he is 13-0 at home this year. If I am Cunningham, I may have given Gates a much longer look.

Secondly, UC is NOT new to Power Conferences. UC was once in the Metro Conference (Florida State, South Carolina, Georgia Tech, Louisville, etc). Likewise, the BIG EAST was considered a Power 6 conference when UC was in it. So, UC historically is not a stranger to playing in Power Conferences.

Lastly, next year will be Miller's fifth (5th) year as head coach. Ideally, you want to see progress in the program from year to year. Last year was UC's first season in the BIG XII. It is very understandable that UC needed to catch up to the higher level of competition. I get that. However, with the ranked recruiting class that Miller brought in this year, and a year of experience in the BIG XII, how do YOU explain the WORST conference start in 42 years (0-4 and 0-2 at home). It appears to me that the basketball program is GOING BACKWARDS.

It also appears that UC will have another losing season inside the conference (not unless there are some major adjustments). If UC has another losing conference season, Miller will have had 3 LOSING CONFERENCE SEASONS IN FOUR YEARS. Although football generates more revenue than basketball, basketball is UC's flagship sport. All should be done to make the brand respected nationally. Currently, Cincinnati is perhaps one of the biggest disappointments in college basketball this year. Wes Miller is the head coach. It is a brutal and tough business. As a coach, you are only good as your last win. Miller has NOT won in four (4) games. Have a good one.

[red_n_black_attack]

For those bemoaning the worst conference start in 42 years, I will ask that we revisit these conversation after the season, or at least some of them. We played a good team on the road (K St), we played a great team on the road (Baylor), and realistically, we played two great teams at home. We only have three more great teams on the schedule (Iowa State, Baylor at home and at Houston), so 13 of the next 16 games could and should be winnable. However, it is fair to pick on Wes because we should've beaten both Arizona and K St, and not had the collapse against Kansas. The offense is stagnant. Shots are not falling, yet they keeping chucking up miracles hoping for a different result. The play above average defense, but the lapse lead to some easy close shots or dunks as it seems we cannot stay in front of a driving guard.

The worst part is few players seem to be playing with any energy and Wes is neither confronting it or holding them accountable. Rick Barnes yanked his star early in the second half for not taking a shot on a play designed to get this guy the shot, and apparently Rick thought he was open. In the post game interview, Rick mentioned these guys are getting paid (NIL) to do a job and they won't play if they don't do the job. The comment raised a lot of eyebrows, but he speaks the truth. These guys are professionals, and NIL is still new enough coaches are learning how to handle playing time based on salaries and Booster influence.

[Rufus]

red_n_black_attack has hit upon something that has not been talked about much. There has been very successful coaches who have decided to leave the college bball scene because of the NIL and the portal system. These players now are professional players who are playing on one year contracts and free to go elsewhere after each season. How can a coach discipline a player who is not playing up to the standard of his salary? Plus these coaches have the misfortune of these kids although being paid have the parents in their ear too thereby having two personalities for a coach to deal with for each player typically. I will use JJ as an example only because I'm only surmising. But Miller keeps putting JJ out there and everybody agrees that he is not a point guard, he's not hitting his shot and consistently getting beat on defense. He is out of sync completely right now but because he's getting paid and his dad is Edggerin James, Miller is obligated or mandated to continue to play him and the other four highest paid players or the portal is on the horizon. I like JIzzle and think he could be a star but not as a point. At least in the pros a player is bound by multiple year contracts or are playing to procure a heftier contact. Miller and other coaches are learning how to "coach" in this new wild West horizon. With the brain trust CWM has on the bench not of them have any answers either. I remember when Miller was hired he confessed that it took him at least 5-6 to figure out what works and what don't while at UNC Greensboro. That was before the NIL and portal. As much as I hate what I'm seeing on the floor I don't see as we have much choice to see if Miller can figure this out.

[djs]

I’m not ready to write off Jizzle. But if he’s receiving big NIL money (and I don’t know whether he is), we’re not getting much in return so far this year and I wouldn’t worry about him going to the portal. His money could be used on someone else.

[cpawstoney]

Chad Brendel :

UC just played 3 Top 20 teams in KenPom, including #7 Kansas, in a span of 8 days.

https://x.com/ChadBrendel/status/1878799999498334588

[red_n_black_attack]

red_n_black_attack has hit upon something that has not been talked about much. There has been very successful coaches who have decided to leave the college bball scene because of the NIL and the portal system. These players now are professional players who are playing on one year contracts and free to go elsewhere after each season. How can a coach discipline a player who is not playing up to the standard of his salary? Plus these coaches have the misfortune of these kids although being paid have the parents in their ear too thereby having two personalities for a coach to deal with for each player typically. I will use JJ as an example only because I'm only surmising. But Miller keeps putting JJ out there and everybody agrees that he is not a point guard, he's not hitting his shot and consistently getting beat on defense. He is out of sync completely right now but because he's getting paid and his dad is Edggerin James, Miller is obligated or mandated to continue to play him and the other four highest paid players or the portal is on the horizon. I like JIzzle and think he could be a star but not as a point. At least in the pros a player is bound by multiple year contracts or are playing to procure a heftier contact. Miller and other coaches are learning how to "coach" in this new wild West horizon. With the brain trust CWM has on the bench not of them have any answers either. I remember when Miller was hired he confessed that it took him at least 5-6 to figure out what works and what don't while at UNC Greensboro. That was before the NIL and portal. As much as I hate what I'm seeing on the floor I don't see as we have much choice to see if Miller can figure this out.

Dude, you nailed it! The problem isn't players getting paid, it's having the entire team on one year contracts. When/If the NCAA tries to put some rules into effect, they have to include multi-year contracts and a salary cap. The NFL and NBA are examples to follow with salary caps. As to contracts, I'd say minimum 3 year year contract out of high school with 1 or 2 year contracts available as second contract. Freshmen get one free opt out at the end of their freshman year, to either renegotiate with current team for 30 days prior to the portal opening (portal only opens in the spring). Sometimes freshmen make a huge impact and see their stock rise. Also, players ending their 3rd year will have the same 30 day window prior to the portal opening to renegotiate, actually all players can renegotiate or extend, if their performance merits extra pay in year 2 or 3 with the school getting the player for the entire college career. With this, it would be known which players are coming due for free agency, except freshmen who opt out as the only wild card. However, this works both ways.

If a player signs, a coach/school cannot cut him easily and contract (scholarship plus NIL) has to be guaranteed. If a player is injured the school honors the scholarship, plus NIL. If a player isn't good enough, or isn't getting the playing time he thought he deserved, he can quit the NIL deal, be off the team , and keep his scholarship, but couldn't sign elsewhere until his contract is up. Regarding injuries, players get 5 years to play 4, with one injury redshirt year available, no extensions or hardships for multiple redshirts. Also, with expanded rosters coming, there's no reason to take a non-medical redhsirt, so end that as an option. No more 6, 7, 8, or 9 years in college. We'd hope most players only spend four years in college, as it would mean no injuries.

While all of this seems very team/school friendly, players get the opt out after their freshman year, plus can choose not to re-up after the first three years. There is incentive for players to work their tails off, improve, and get paid. The reality is, a salary cap will help structure many of the deals, with recruit rankings determining the first contract, and performance driving the market on the second contract. Plus a player can renegotiate with a team mid-contract, meaning schools that don't pay up for freshman/sophomore performance, may get a disgruntled player who won't resign after year three or may choose to forgo NIL even if they cannot sign elsewhere. No play no pay, but also schools are going to find it hard not to renogiate with underclassmen.

[Rufus]

Something has to to be done fix this mess. A coach today has no legitimate of disciplining a player. If you sit him he still gets paid. And the only reason JJ is still playing is because the staff is afraid he will leave. I know Is would not want to be a college coach in today's we environment.

[westside bearcat]

Didn't JJ and Skillings both say before the season started, that this would be their last year? i assume this meant they were going pro. I don't think either one of them is ready.