Kansas State 3/5 7:00 ESPN+

[sedz]

I think it could benefit Wes and the players if we rearrange our NIL deals to include escalators, just like the escalators in a coach's contract. X amount for player of the week, X amount for first All conferences, and second team all-conference, team bonuses for winning the regular season championship, winning conference championship, making the NCAA, sweet 16, etc... The same could apply to football or other sports, but the money has to be there.

This is a good idea in theory, but put yourself in the player's shoes. If you have one NIL offer that depends on escalators, and another offering equal money that doesn't, you're going to take the guaranteed money. So escalators have to be above what other schools are offering, making everything cost more.

In pro sports this usually goes the other direction. Teams will put player options or no trade clauses in there to entice them to sign for less money.

[BorisTheCat]

Here's the other thing.... there's no reason that UC should "need" that any more than any other school. There has also been talk about whether NIL has made our guys "less driven"... again... there is no reason that would be more true for UC than EVERY other school. My guess is... if this even SEEMS like an idea that should be considered, it is more of a reflection on the players you have brought in... For this and many other reasons, I think Wes MUST reassess his player selection process. His approach to building a roster has not worked... I think the only way he survives after next year is admitting that his current approach (players, coaches, offense) has proven to be insufficient... and to make fundamental changes... He cannot count on more than one year to get this corrected

[zykarious]

K State does not play two bigs. Hawkins is not a big like Aziz or Page. He's a mobile perimeter player like Mitchell. And we shut him down. He scored 9 points on 10 shots with no offensive rebounds and turned it over 6 times. Are you saying you would rather have had Page chasing him around the perimeter? Our defense in this game was great. We only scored 49 points at home! You don't fix that by adding even slower players.

Mitchell struggled with Hawkins initially, odds are Page would have been a disaster. Reed deserves most of the credit for shutting Hawkins down. That's a large part of the reason Reed got more minutes than Mitchell. I know Reed had a poor offensive game, but he had a great game defense and rebounding.

[sedz]

Mitchell struggled with Hawkins initially, odds are Page would have been a disaster. Reed deserves most of the credit for shutting Hawkins down. That's a large part of the reason Reed got more minutes than Mitchell. I know Reed had a poor offensive game, but he had a great game defense and rebounding.

Yep, everyone will have bad shooting nights, but Reed didn't let it affect his effort and rebounding. Reed, Aziz, and Mitchell each had 7 rebounds, but they only made 5 out of 19 shots combined. Can't have such an offensive black hole in the frontcourt.

[Rufus]

why do you suppose that is? The coaching staff or the players lack desire.

We all had the proverbial smoke blowed in our direction by CWM being from the Roy Williams coaching tree, but it is evident that he is not ready to coach in a power four conference.

[Rufus]

These players do not want to play for Miller or they don't like his offensive schemes, which leads to another question why does Miller recruit players and try to force round pegs into square holes. Or does he become enamoured with a player who opposed us in a game and fixates on that player (see Aziz and Mitchel.) Can he not evaluate what it takes to compete in this conference.

I listened to Millers pgp and he's taking the blame. Chad Brendal ask him if there was a point in the game when he became aware of the lack of intensity from his team and He said it was at the very start. I myself noticed it at the 10 minute mark left in the first half UC was in the lead ( double digits I think ) and it looked like they all just collectively decided they had this game in the bag and no longer need their A game. Or not to make accusations but could have looked like that all said " hey we're not as supposed be winning this easy". But if I'm the head coach and I'm seeing a very noticeable lack of effort from the five I've got on the floor I'm setting all five on the bench and putting in five guys who never get a chance to play. What have you got to lose. Your well on your way to losing again, your in the bottom half of the conference, very little chance of making the tourney, your already on the hot seat, fan base is already booing you and your team, so continuing doing the same old routine that hasn't worked all year just comes across as not caring either or your in over your head.

Someone earlier was listing players who they would let go and keep forgot about McKinnley we do have him returning as of right now do we not?

[leeraymond]

K State does not play two bigs. Hawkins is not a big like Aziz or Page. He's a mobile perimeter player like Mitchell. And we shut him down. He scored 9 points on 10 shots with no offensive rebounds and turned it over 6 times. Are you saying you would rather have had Page chasing him around the perimeter? Our defense in this game was great. We only scored 49 points at home! You don't fix that by adding even slower players.

Sedz, you are looking at Hawkins as if he cannot play on the inside. He was 1-3 from the three-point line and 4-10 overall. He did most of his scoring from inside the arc. If you look at K-State's front-line stats you will see that it went 27 points and 18 rebounds where UC's front-line (Aziz and Mitchell) went 11 and 14. Clearly, K-State's front line got the better of UC's front-line again. I do not look at one player particularly, I look at position groupings mostly. Bigger front lines give this UC team problems. It happened again Wednesday night as it has all season.

Mitchell is not a good matchup for Hawkins. He does not have enough size. In two games Hawkins has gone 29 and 17 and Mitchell has gone 17 and 18.

We do not know enough about Page and how he would measure up to Hawkins because he does not play enough. However, Hawkins does not drive the ball a lot because he is not that good of a ball handler. He has turned the ball over 8 times in two games against UC. Page has the size to challenge his three-point shot and to bang with him in the paint. Page is not slow, he is lazy. I think Miller is missing an opportunity not to play Page more, especially against teams that play two bigs. Mitchell just does not match up well against bigger big men.

I agree with you that UC's defense was pretty good Wednesday night. It was not the defense that killed UC, it was the late game turnovers. K-State scored 17 points off of UC turnovers, UC scored 12 points off of KSU turnovers. That was the difference in the score, 5 points. To answer your question; yes I would rather have seen Page check Hawkins instead of Mitchell. Why not? Mitchell cannot really guard him. Reed did an okay job guarding Hawkins, but Hawkins outscored Reed and Mitchell combined. Also, remember Hawkins was playing with a sore knee.

[leeraymond]

Mitchell struggled with Hawkins initially, odds are Page would have been a disaster. Reed deserves most of the credit for shutting Hawkins down. That's a large part of the reason Reed got more minutes than Mitchell. I know Reed had a poor offensive game, but he had a great game defense and rebounding.

You really do not know what Page would have done against Hawkins. Nobody knows because he does not play enough. Nobody knew what Reed can do until he started playing on a regular basis. Wednesday night it looked like page came to play based on the 2 minutes he did play.

Page has the size the guard Hawkins. That is something that neither Mitchell or Reed has. By the way, Hawkins outscored both Mitchell and Reed combined and pulled down one more rebound than Reed and Mitchell. Also, Page gives UC some degree of an inside scoring threat when he is playing well. Wednesday night, Page looked like he was ready to play.

[sedz]

Dug McDaniel scored more points than Hawkins inside the arc. Should we have put Aziz on him? Apparently size is all that matters on defense. We should recruit some sumo wrestlers.

[London 'Cat]

Dug McDaniel scored more points than Hawkins inside the arc. Should we have put Aziz on him? Apparently size is all that matters on defense. We should recruit some sumo wrestlers.

Funny sedz. Seriously, what this team lacks is foot speed. I notice in every game they can neither stay in front of the opposing player while defending. Nor can they get past their defenders. That is why the team can’t get to the rim and has to settle for midrange shots. Even if the offense was designed to get shots at the rim they can’t get there.

[zykarious]

You really do not know what Page would have done against Hawkins. Nobody knows because he does not play enough. Nobody knew what Reed can do until he started playing on a regular basis. Wednesday night it looked like page came to play based on the 2 minutes he did play.

Page has the size the guard Hawkins. That is something that neither Mitchell or Reed has. By the way, Hawkins outscored both Mitchell and Reed combined and pulled down one more rebound than Reed and Mitchell. Also, Page gives UC some degree of an inside scoring threat when he is playing well. Wednesday night, Page looked like he was ready to play.

Page is probably our laziest player, it's pretty obvious why he doesn't play "enough". He's a center who doesn't box out. Page came in, boxed out once then got shoved way out of position on the next couple of rebounds. If you think he was going to match Hawkins physicality, you aren't watching him play.

Reed played great defense because he played defense for the full 30 seconds every possession, he didn't let Hawkins get the ball in the post. The one time I recall Hawkins getting the ball in the post against Reed, Hawkins scored with relative ease. The rest of the time, Reed denied him the ball and pushed him out of position before Hawkins got the ball. Again, if you think Page would have played 30 seconds of defense every time down the court, you haven't watched him play this year.

Hawkins had 6 turnovers and KSU had even more turnovers trying to force the ball to Hawkins when he was well covered.

[sedz]

Funny sedz. Seriously, what this team lacks is foot speed. I notice in every game they can neither stay in front of the opposing player while defending. Nor can they get past their defenders. That is why the team can’t get to the rim and has to settle for midrange shots. Even if the offense was designed to get shots at the rim they can’t get there.

I agree. Size can only do so much. It's more important to be first to the spot. The best rebounding and interior defense teams are more athletic than big. Look at Texas A&M, Houston, and St Johns. None of them play anybody over 6'9 but they're all top 10 in offensive rebounding and top 11 defensively while forcing a lot of turnovers. Some of their interior players are strong, but more importantly they can move laterally, get off the ground quickly, and have good balance. If we're not going to run an efficient offense, that's the route we need to take with the roster.

[leo from jersey]

I agree. Size can only do so much. It's more important to be first to the spot. The best rebounding and interior defense teams are more athletic than big. Look at Texas A&M, Houston, and St Johns. None of them play anybody over 6'9 but they're all top 10 in offensive rebounding and top 11 defensively while forcing a lot of turnovers. Some of their interior players are strong, but more importantly they can move laterally, get off the ground quickly, and have good balance. If we're not going to run an efficient offense, that's the route we need to take with the roster.

anticipation based on knowledge of how a ball comes off the backboard/rim and then positioning often very effective with your body.--As Sir Charles said "any knucklehead can score but it takes a BB player to rebound"

[leeraymond]

Dug McDaniel scored more points than Hawkins inside the arc. Should we have put Aziz on him? Apparently size is all that matters on defense. We should recruit some sumo wrestlers.

Now that you mentioned it, K-State as a team outscored UC in the paint. Now Sedz, you are changing the subject. We were discussing the possibility of Page guarding Hawkins. Now you want to bring McDaniel into it. Make up your mind. Are we talking about Hawkins or McDaniel? Seriously though, the bottom line is the team lost the game. This was a bad loss because UC really needed this game. Hawkins did not kill UC, UC killed itself with late game turnovers.

Nevertheless, it would have been very interesting to see the Page / Hawkins matchup.

[sedz]

Now that you mentioned it, K-State as a team outscored UC in the paint. Now Sedz, you are changing the subject. We were discussing the possibility of Page guarding Hawkins. Now you want to bring McDaniel into it. Make up your mind. Are we talking about Hawkins or McDaniel? Seriously though, the bottom line is the team lost the game. This was a bad loss because UC really needed this game. Hawkins did not kill UC, UC killed itself with late game turnovers.

Nevertheless, it would have been very interesting to see the Page / Hawkins matchup.

We have this discussion almost every game. We get outscored at the rim because we don't get to the rim on offense! It's not because our defense is bad. We only scored 20 points at the rim. That's pathetic. The solution is not to add more slow players.