Kansas State 3/5 7:00 ESPN+

[red_n_black_attack]

This is a good idea in theory, but put yourself in the player's shoes. If you have one NIL offer that depends on escalators, and another offering equal money that doesn't, you're going to take the guaranteed money. So escalators have to be above what other schools are offering, making everything cost more.

In pro sports this usually goes the other direction. Teams will put player options or no trade clauses in there to entice them to sign for less money.

You have to give equal NIL to other offers before the escalator. We have to make base pay competitive or better and still pay for the winning the fanbase wants

[sedz]

Our best seasons have almost all been with small frontcourts. Jaquon Parker was playing the 4 the last time we went to the sweet sixteen. Our best team under Cronin featured Kyle Washington and Gary Clark, neither of whom are tall or bulky. Kenyon Martin was undersized at the 5 and he shared the frontcourt with Pete Mickeal who was only 6'6. And that team played two point guards. Herb Jones was our leading rebounder on the final four team at 6'4. The Bearcat way is not to load up on huge, strong guys. It's quick, tenacious athletes who are first to the ball.

If anything I'd have rather gone even smaller against Kansas St. Put Reed on Hawkins and Mitchell on N'Guessan. Then you can spread the floor on offense.

[zykarious]

Clearly Reed's defense was not enough because UC still lost the game with that smallish lineup. Every team this season that played with two active and sizeable big men have defeated UC. Why do you think that is the case? Hawkins is 6'10". Reed and Mitchell go about 6'7". Who do you think is going to get the better of those matchups?

If a team cannot play the matchups from one night to the next (regardless of why it cannot play the matchups), it will not win many of those games. The proof is in UC's record this year and the tail-end of last year. Miller should go get some size and stop f%$#@ around with these wings that cannot matchup. Check out all of the losses. You tell me if these small lineups are working for UC?

I thought we were talking about Page. What have you seen from him that makes you think he would have done close to as well at defending Hawkins? We weren't playing hard and you think taking our highest effort guy, who was playing great defense off the court and replacing him with the guy who has been the laziest throughout the season would have helped? If you want to make a logical argument, it should be about Aziz's defense on N'Guessan, Aziz has historically struggled with mobile big men and did against N'Guessan. But Aziz is 7' and N'Guessan 6'9", so that doesn't quite fit your model.

Would it be great to have a mobile big who defends well and can also play offense, definitely, every team wants one and hopefully Wes gets at least one in the off-season. I'm sure Wes would love if Page would play defense and consistently work to box out instead of getting pushed out of position. He gave Page more chances than he deserved for the first half of the season.

Plenty of teams have had great success with 4 guard line-ups, in fact I remember the days when one major criticism of Mick was that he was stuck in the two bigs mindset and hadn't adapted to position-less basketball.

[leeraymond]

Page is probably our laziest player, it's pretty obvious why he doesn't play "enough". He's a center who doesn't box out. Page came in, boxed out once then got shoved way out of position on the next couple of rebounds. If you think he was going to match Hawkins physicality, you aren't watching him play.

Reed played great defense because he played defense for the full 30 seconds every possession, he didn't let Hawkins get the ball in the post. The one time I recall Hawkins getting the ball in the post against Reed, Hawkins scored with relative ease. The rest of the time, Reed denied him the ball and pushed him out of position before Hawkins got the ball. Again, if you think Page would have played 30 seconds of defense every time down the court, you haven't watched him play this year.

Hawkins had 6 turnovers and KSU had even more turnovers trying to force the ball to Hawkins when he was well covered.

Clearly Reed's defense was not enough because UC still lost the game with that smallish lineup. Every team this season that played with two active and sizeable big men have defeated UC. Why do you think that is the case? Hawkins is 6'10". Reed and Mitchell go about 6'7". Who do you think is going to get the better of those matchups?

If a team cannot play the matchups from one night to the next (regardless of why it cannot play the matchups), it will not win many of those games. The proof is in UC's record this year and the tail-end of last year. Miller should go get some size and stop f%$#@ around with these wings that cannot matchup. Check out all of the losses. You tell me if these small lineups are working for UC?

[leo from jersey]

That strongly suggests too that UC has problems stopping people from getting to the rim.

it sure did look like that this season. I commented that the first 4 points KSU scored was an open path to the rim.

[leeraymond]

We have this discussion almost every game. We get outscored at the rim because we don't get to the rim on offense! It's not because our defense is bad. We only scored 20 points at the rim. That's pathetic. The solution is not to add more slow players.

That strongly suggests too that UC has problems stopping people from getting to the rim.

[sedz]

Now that you mentioned it, K-State as a team outscored UC in the paint. Now Sedz, you are changing the subject. We were discussing the possibility of Page guarding Hawkins. Now you want to bring McDaniel into it. Make up your mind. Are we talking about Hawkins or McDaniel? Seriously though, the bottom line is the team lost the game. This was a bad loss because UC really needed this game. Hawkins did not kill UC, UC killed itself with late game turnovers.

Nevertheless, it would have been very interesting to see the Page / Hawkins matchup.

We have this discussion almost every game. We get outscored at the rim because we don't get to the rim on offense! It's not because our defense is bad. We only scored 20 points at the rim. That's pathetic. The solution is not to add more slow players.

[leeraymond]

Dug McDaniel scored more points than Hawkins inside the arc. Should we have put Aziz on him? Apparently size is all that matters on defense. We should recruit some sumo wrestlers.

Now that you mentioned it, K-State as a team outscored UC in the paint. Now Sedz, you are changing the subject. We were discussing the possibility of Page guarding Hawkins. Now you want to bring McDaniel into it. Make up your mind. Are we talking about Hawkins or McDaniel? Seriously though, the bottom line is the team lost the game. This was a bad loss because UC really needed this game. Hawkins did not kill UC, UC killed itself with late game turnovers.

Nevertheless, it would have been very interesting to see the Page / Hawkins matchup.

[leo from jersey]

I agree. Size can only do so much. It's more important to be first to the spot. The best rebounding and interior defense teams are more athletic than big. Look at Texas A&M, Houston, and St Johns. None of them play anybody over 6'9 but they're all top 10 in offensive rebounding and top 11 defensively while forcing a lot of turnovers. Some of their interior players are strong, but more importantly they can move laterally, get off the ground quickly, and have good balance. If we're not going to run an efficient offense, that's the route we need to take with the roster.

anticipation based on knowledge of how a ball comes off the backboard/rim and then positioning often very effective with your body.--As Sir Charles said "any knucklehead can score but it takes a BB player to rebound"

[sedz]

Funny sedz. Seriously, what this team lacks is foot speed. I notice in every game they can neither stay in front of the opposing player while defending. Nor can they get past their defenders. That is why the team can’t get to the rim and has to settle for midrange shots. Even if the offense was designed to get shots at the rim they can’t get there.

I agree. Size can only do so much. It's more important to be first to the spot. The best rebounding and interior defense teams are more athletic than big. Look at Texas A&M, Houston, and St Johns. None of them play anybody over 6'9 but they're all top 10 in offensive rebounding and top 11 defensively while forcing a lot of turnovers. Some of their interior players are strong, but more importantly they can move laterally, get off the ground quickly, and have good balance. If we're not going to run an efficient offense, that's the route we need to take with the roster.

[zykarious]

You really do not know what Page would have done against Hawkins. Nobody knows because he does not play enough. Nobody knew what Reed can do until he started playing on a regular basis. Wednesday night it looked like page came to play based on the 2 minutes he did play.

Page has the size the guard Hawkins. That is something that neither Mitchell or Reed has. By the way, Hawkins outscored both Mitchell and Reed combined and pulled down one more rebound than Reed and Mitchell. Also, Page gives UC some degree of an inside scoring threat when he is playing well. Wednesday night, Page looked like he was ready to play.

Page is probably our laziest player, it's pretty obvious why he doesn't play "enough". He's a center who doesn't box out. Page came in, boxed out once then got shoved way out of position on the next couple of rebounds. If you think he was going to match Hawkins physicality, you aren't watching him play.

Reed played great defense because he played defense for the full 30 seconds every possession, he didn't let Hawkins get the ball in the post. The one time I recall Hawkins getting the ball in the post against Reed, Hawkins scored with relative ease. The rest of the time, Reed denied him the ball and pushed him out of position before Hawkins got the ball. Again, if you think Page would have played 30 seconds of defense every time down the court, you haven't watched him play this year.

Hawkins had 6 turnovers and KSU had even more turnovers trying to force the ball to Hawkins when he was well covered.

[London 'Cat]

Dug McDaniel scored more points than Hawkins inside the arc. Should we have put Aziz on him? Apparently size is all that matters on defense. We should recruit some sumo wrestlers.

Funny sedz. Seriously, what this team lacks is foot speed. I notice in every game they can neither stay in front of the opposing player while defending. Nor can they get past their defenders. That is why the team can’t get to the rim and has to settle for midrange shots. Even if the offense was designed to get shots at the rim they can’t get there.

[sedz]

Dug McDaniel scored more points than Hawkins inside the arc. Should we have put Aziz on him? Apparently size is all that matters on defense. We should recruit some sumo wrestlers.

[leeraymond]

Mitchell struggled with Hawkins initially, odds are Page would have been a disaster. Reed deserves most of the credit for shutting Hawkins down. That's a large part of the reason Reed got more minutes than Mitchell. I know Reed had a poor offensive game, but he had a great game defense and rebounding.

You really do not know what Page would have done against Hawkins. Nobody knows because he does not play enough. Nobody knew what Reed can do until he started playing on a regular basis. Wednesday night it looked like page came to play based on the 2 minutes he did play.

Page has the size the guard Hawkins. That is something that neither Mitchell or Reed has. By the way, Hawkins outscored both Mitchell and Reed combined and pulled down one more rebound than Reed and Mitchell. Also, Page gives UC some degree of an inside scoring threat when he is playing well. Wednesday night, Page looked like he was ready to play.

[leeraymond]

K State does not play two bigs. Hawkins is not a big like Aziz or Page. He's a mobile perimeter player like Mitchell. And we shut him down. He scored 9 points on 10 shots with no offensive rebounds and turned it over 6 times. Are you saying you would rather have had Page chasing him around the perimeter? Our defense in this game was great. We only scored 49 points at home! You don't fix that by adding even slower players.

Sedz, you are looking at Hawkins as if he cannot play on the inside. He was 1-3 from the three-point line and 4-10 overall. He did most of his scoring from inside the arc. If you look at K-State's front-line stats you will see that it went 27 points and 18 rebounds where UC's front-line (Aziz and Mitchell) went 11 and 14. Clearly, K-State's front line got the better of UC's front-line again. I do not look at one player particularly, I look at position groupings mostly. Bigger front lines give this UC team problems. It happened again Wednesday night as it has all season.

Mitchell is not a good matchup for Hawkins. He does not have enough size. In two games Hawkins has gone 29 and 17 and Mitchell has gone 17 and 18.

We do not know enough about Page and how he would measure up to Hawkins because he does not play enough. However, Hawkins does not drive the ball a lot because he is not that good of a ball handler. He has turned the ball over 8 times in two games against UC. Page has the size to challenge his three-point shot and to bang with him in the paint. Page is not slow, he is lazy. I think Miller is missing an opportunity not to play Page more, especially against teams that play two bigs. Mitchell just does not match up well against bigger big men.

I agree with you that UC's defense was pretty good Wednesday night. It was not the defense that killed UC, it was the late game turnovers. K-State scored 17 points off of UC turnovers, UC scored 12 points off of KSU turnovers. That was the difference in the score, 5 points. To answer your question; yes I would rather have seen Page check Hawkins instead of Mitchell. Why not? Mitchell cannot really guard him. Reed did an okay job guarding Hawkins, but Hawkins outscored Reed and Mitchell combined. Also, remember Hawkins was playing with a sore knee.