UCF April 3 at 7:00 PM on FS1

[sedz]

What happens when you run into a team who can score 75 on your top 10 defense? We've already been down that road. That's what happened to all of Cronin's teams from 2016-2019. Before that we had terrible offenses that struggled to even put up 60 points in the tournament. We got lucky facing another team that couldn't score in 2012 - Florida St was #72 on offense, even worse than us. FSU's top 10 defense lost that game. Then tOSU hung 81 on us.

You either need good offense AND defense or you have to be elite on one side of the ball. Duke and Houston are top 10 on both sides of the ball. There's not much point in arguing which is more important.

Our defense this year was good (top 20) but not elite. Our offense was not good (#89). Our team can get better by improving either one. I think it's best to be at least competent on both sides of the ball rather than putting all your eggs in one basket.

[leeraymond]

Yes, UC gave up 88 to UCF, which I addressed. They couldn't contain Darius Johnson. However, if defense was an issue over the course of the season, then the vast majority of the B12 had even bigger issues with it. UC's problem throughout the season was offensive production, which declined once they got into conference play.

In conference play UC scored 65 a game and gave up 69 a game. To me, the defense was worse than the offense. I was looking at the Final Four game between Houston and Duke. Duke, on the season, gave up 62 points a game and Houston gave up 58 points a game. Those are two good defensive teams. UC needs to get its scoring defense down to 63 or 64 points a game to really be competitive. Unfortunately, under Miller, the best conference scoring defense that UC had was in Miller's second year where UC gave up about 68 points a game in the AAC. Even that was too many.

Defensive play also declined once UC got to the BIG XII.

Think about this for a second. The last year that UC went to the Sweet 16, UC scored 68 points a game and gave up only 62 points a game. This year, if UC would have given up only 62 points a game in the conference, it would have made the NCAAs. I favor defense as a way to winning games. Offense will keep you games as long as you are scoring. However, what happens when there are bad scoring games? How does a team when it has a bad scoring night?

[swilsonsp4]

To bolster the "D wasn't the issue" argument:

UC played 23 games versus B12 teams (regular season, B12 tourney, CBC). Of those, the Cats held their opponents under their season scoring averages 18 times. Two of the others were against UCF, who just try to outscore everybody, with defense being an afterthought (which the Cats didn't handle well this week). One was at ISU (81 to the Cyclones' 80.3 average). One was at OSU by +5, while the last was to TTU (81 to 80.9).

[BearKatz]

Yes, UC gave up 88 to UCF, which I addressed. They couldn't contain Darius Johnson. However, if defense was an issue over the course of the season, then the vast majority of the B12 had even bigger issues with it. UC's problem throughout the season was offensive production, which declined once they got into conference play.

UC's problem throughout the season was offensive production, which declined once they got into conference play.

I couldn't agree more! It's easy to dsguise Offensive failure playing Morehead St, Nicholls and others early in the season. Once we hit Big 12 play, and this team needed to show some Mettle and Toughness which the players did very little of... IMO

[swilsonsp4]

UC gave up 88 points and 50 alone came in the second half against UCF. Just for the record, UC scored 80 points The way I look at college basketball, that is bad defense. UC may be defensively ranked fifth in the BIG XII, however, UC gave up 69 points a game in conference and had a conference record 7-13. Offense was an issue, but UC had a hard time stopping teams from scoring. In my mind, defense is an issue.

Yes, UC gave up 88 to UCF, which I addressed. They couldn't contain Darius Johnson. However, if defense was an issue over the course of the season, then the vast majority of the B12 had even bigger issues with it. UC's problem throughout the season was offensive production, which declined once they got into conference play.

[BearKatz]

Lets say all of this is true, and I agree with you! Then it's ALL on Wes, either way you look at it.

#1) If Wes can't get through to his players, it's on hm.
#2) If we say it's not Wes's fault, it's the players. Who recruited the players? Wes

Either way, this is all on Wes.

although a winning season we have aq foundational losing program.[/QUOTE]

Yes sir, we finish 19-16 and some would say that's a good season. But not by previous UC Standards! Anything less than a NCAA Tournament birth is a failure IMO.

Plus, I see very little progression from the players year to year. To me, that's the ultimate failure.

[leo from jersey]

UC had no fundamental skills and absolutely no team play. The monster factory is there to build not only strength, but motivation, confidence and desire. They showed little of those winning traits. The coaching staff failed miserably at teaching BB skills.

Lets say all of this is true, and I agree with you! Then it's ALL on Wes, either way you look at it.

#1) If Wes can't get through to his players, it's on hm.
#2) If we say it's not Wes's fault, it's the players. Who recruited the players? Wes

Either way, this is all on Wes.

[/QUOTE]

although a winning season we have aq foundational losing program.

[BearKatz]

UC had no fundamental skills and absolutely no team play. The monster factory is there to build not only strength, but motivation, confidence and desire. They showed little of those winning traits. The coaching staff failed miserably at teaching BB skills.
[/QUOTE]


Lets say all of this is true, and I agree with you! Then it's ALL on Wes, either way you look at it.

#1) If Wes can't get through to his players, it's on hm.
#2) If we say it's not Wes's fault, it's the players. Who recruited the players? Wes

Either way, this is all on Wes.

[leo from jersey]

One more from Oscar and it correctly chronicles the state of the program. Notice, it doesn't speak of NIL or the portal, although important. Notice Houston in their second season in the Big12 and also in the final 4.

“You have to teach now – tell a kid how to box out, tell him how to pass, teach him footwork. Players don’t understand that anymore.”

UC had no fundamental skills and absolutely no team play. The monster factory is there to build not only strength, but motivation, confidence and desire. They showed little of those winning traits. The coaching staff failed miserably at teaching BB skills.

[leo from jersey]

Van Exel and Kilpatrick have already made their feelings known. IMO Both of them should be sitting on the bench.

I thought we should have hired Van Exel as HC when we had the chance over Brannen.

Since Mick left for UCLA, what's program done? (2) Different coaches, and both have failed to make the Tourney. However, if it wasn't for Covid, The Cats were in Brannen's first year. It helps having Scott, Cumberland and Williams on your team.

You take those (3) Players away, and we've done absolutely nothing since! The only Positive has been the recruiting.

I have heard many say, Wes has been a better recruiter over Mick. I agree, But? Mick never had a chance to recruit while being in the Big 12. Look at the players Mick landed once he arrived at UCLA.

I don't think Nick had his B.A. --

He has it now and it says UC on the diploma.

[BearKatz]

If Oscar speaks -- they have to listen -- Let him do it in the paper, a public letter and in the media. Everybody knows that Oscar can't be accepting of this excrement in the department.

Van Exel and Kilpatrick have already made their feelings known. IMO Both of them should be sitting on the bench.

I thought we should have hired Van Exel as HC when we had the chance over Brannen.

Since Mick left for UCLA, what's program done? (2) Different coaches, and both have failed to make the Tourney. However, if it wasn't for Covid, The Cats were in Brannen's first year. It helps having Scott, Cumberland and Williams on your team.

You take those (3) Players away, and we've done absolutely nothing since! The only Positive has been the recruiting.

I have heard many say, Wes has been a better recruiter over Mick. I agree, But? Mick never had a chance to recruit while being in the Big 12. Look at the players Mick landed once he arrived at UCLA.

[leo from jersey]

I think its time to have some former Bearcats who played under Huggins or Mick as Assistant Coaches.

Eventually into the HC Position. I don't believe Wes has what it takes to be successful in the Big 12....IMO

If Oscar speaks -- they have to listen -- Let him do it in the paper, a public letter and in the media. Everybody knows that Oscar can't be accepting of this excrement in the department.

There is so much more than strategy, stats and plays. You must reach the players and then the stats etc. will improve. Unless that happens and CWM doesn't understand, the practices can be sharp , but the record will be wretched.


"You need a teaching coach who understands the game of basketball, not just some guy coming on the court taking about Xs and Os"

Oscar Robertson

[BearKatz]

Before the UCF game Terry Nelson offered an honest evaluation of each player and what they needed to improve on going into next year. It was the most insightful and objective view I've heard all year and in line with many of the thoughts on this forum. He included Wes in there as well. Anyway you can tell he's busting at the seams to share his real thoughts but has to soften it up because of his color commentator role. He and the other former Bearcats have got to be frustrated by what they see out there on the floor. Miller can't be oblivious to all this and I hope the desperation of this likely being his last opportunity at UC motivates him to make some transformational changes. And please replace the assistant position with someone that will challenge the status quo and not be another "Yes Man".

I think its time to have some former Bearcats who played under Huggins or Mick as Assistant Coaches.

Eventually into the HC Position. I don't believe Wes has what it takes to be successful in the Big 12....IMO

[Gmann]

Before the UCF game Terry Nelson offered an honest evaluation of each player and what they needed to improve on going into next year. It was the most insightful and objective view I've heard all year and in line with many of the thoughts on this forum. He included Wes in there as well. Anyway you can tell he's busting at the seams to share his real thoughts but has to soften it up because of his color commentator role. He and the other former Bearcats have got to be frustrated by what they see out there on the floor. Miller can't be oblivious to all this and I hope the desperation of this likely being his last opportunity at UC motivates him to make some transformational changes. And please replace the assistant position with someone that will challenge the status quo and not be another "Yes Man".

[BearKatz]

Lots of strawmen here. I have never claimed that stats tell the whole story, that I prefer Simas over Rayvon, or that I would give up on a player based on freshman stats. Often times I simply present advanced statistics because they are part of the story. Everyone can come to their own conclusions based on them.

We don't know Kenyon's BPM because college basketball didn't fully track substitutions until 2008. But we can look at some advanced statistics. Kenyon committed 8.8 fouls per 40 minutes and had a 22.5% turnover rate, which as I said earlier are the two areas most freshmen struggle. That's why he only played 233 minutes over the 34 game season, an average of under 7 mpg. But he showed promise by making 65% effective field goals as a freshman with 13 rebounds, 4 blocks, and 2 steals per 40 minutes. Those per minute numbers stayed almost exactly the same throughout his career. He clearly had upside, but just needed to cut down on fouls and turnovers to get more playing time.

And that's all I said about Rayvon. He needs to foul less. I don't think that's controversial.

"Lots of strawmen here"

Really, lots of strawmen.... Hmmmm I don't think so!

First off, seems to me your taking it persoanlly! Funny thing is, lots of us in this Forum take things personal, Huh? No one said this was directed towards you! I was simply making a declarative statement and using Grffith as an example.