Sad State of Bearcat Basketball

[BearKatz]

First off, Happy Thanksgiving Everyone!

To put it simply, this is a BAD Team! The reason becuase we have an average Coach at best. Most of us would probably say he's a bad coach.

I look at last years team, and we lost (11) players to the portal or graduated. A few current stats, a couple stick out.

Dan Skillings Jr. 11.5pts, 6.5reb, 45.8fg%
Rayvon Griffith 4.1pts, 1.9reb, 40.7fg%
Jizzle James N/A
CJ Fredrick Jr. Grad
Connor Hickman 13.7pts, 4.3reb, 34.1fg%
Josh Reed 10.1pts, 4.7reb , 46fg%
Tyler Betsey 10pts, 3.3reb, 33.9fg%
Arrinten Page 15.7pts, 7.0reb, 62.7fg%
Dillon Mitchell 11.0pts, 6.4reb, 67.3fg%
Simas Lukošius Grad
Aziz Bandaogo Grad

Holdovers from last year:

Halvine Dzellat
Tyler McKinley
Day Day Thomas

Going back to last year, this group had several conversations on the outlook had McKinley been available. Nothing would have changed, would have been the same outcome had he played.

So we add (9) new players worth mentioning at this point. Two highly touted Freshman, one a McDAA the other Top 50/75 and we have the same outcome productionas last years team. Disappointing losses, and maybe to worst loss I can remember from a team we were favored to beat by 23.5pts!

Sencire Harris
Jalen Haynes
Shon Abaev
Kerr Kriisa
Keyshuan Tillery
Baba Miller
Jordi Rodriguez
Moustapha Thiam
Jalen Celestine

I know the term floor leader is used a lot over the last few years. Supposedly this team lacks one? Or does our current starting PG Thomas play the way Wes has instructed him to? When Justin Jenifer was a senior under Mick, was he not one of the best PGs in the Country at taking care of the ball? Becuase that's how he was COACHED, right? If Thomas or Tillery played under Mick or Huggs, would we have the same carelessness with the ball, and bad OPEN shots from the rest of the team?

It's the way ALL of them are Coached! I know a bunch of us have gotten on Jizzle for not sharing the ball, getting others involved during the game. Was he not coached to take an open look if it was there?

How many times last night did we jackup a 3, just becuase the gaurd had a decent look? Didn't matter if we had players in place to rebound, the shot went up regardless.

If we grade Wes Miller, what are his Strenghts?

1) Good Recruiter

Can anyone name another strength? This is a bad underachieving team, cause we have a bad coach! Regardless how many players leave or come in, the result is always the same! Until Wes is fired or contract expires, nothing will change.

If we WANT the type of teams and coaches we've had in the past, then we need to move on from Wes Miller. This current team will finish bottom 3 of the Big 12!

[bearcatbret]

I have been wondering why any good player would want to come to UC with the current situation. The only thought that comes to mind is that Wes promises them a run and gun style of game and tells them that they can shoot anytime to showcase their skills. Well, we all know that hero ball does not work. We also know that there is no "me in team" unless you remove two letters and rearrange the remaining two letters. Maybe this year, the players will settle down and play team ball with the assist first in mind. The Big 12 is one of the top two conferences in the country and UC needs some adjustments to compete. I lived through the terrible years playing at the coliseum under Tony Yates. I have met Mr, Yates and he was a very nice guy. Kind of like Wes is a nice guy. Nice guys do not necessarily win. Maybe Wes can bring coach Roy Williams in for coaching.

[Lobot]

I have a question for everyone. I'm not challenging anyone's opinion here. Most of you have on this board long enough to experience some wild losses in this program. Here's the question:

Do you feel the same about Wes Miller after the EMU loss yesterday as you did about Mick Cronin after Presbyterian?

This site has lost some of our archives over the years due to random issues but I'm pretty sure a lot of us were calling for Mick's head after that loss and challenging his ability to coach offense.

I'm not defending Wes' coaching. Last night was a debacle. I'd love to be a fly on the wall in the locker room these days but I unless my memory is fuzzy the Cronin team that lost to Presbyterian made the Sweet Sixteen.

[BearKatz]

I have a question for everyone. I'm not challenging anyone's opinion here. Most of you have on this board long enough to experience some wild losses in this program. Here's the question:

Do you feel the same about Wes Miller after the EMU loss yesterday as you did about Mick Cronin after Presbyterian?

This site has lost some of our archives over the years due to random issues but I'm pretty sure a lot of us were calling for Mick's head after that loss and challenging his ability to coach offense.

I'm not defending Wes' coaching. Last night was a debacle. I'd love to be a fly on the wall in the locker room these days but I unless my memory is fuzzy the Cronin team that lost to Presbyterian made the Sweet Sixteen.

I don't remember the loss to Presbyterian, but I do remember the loss against Nevada in the Tournament which was the last straw for me. I felt I'd seen enough of Mick not being able to coach offense.

I later said a few years later, be careful what you wish for. I would take Mick back in a heartbeat. I totally get where you're coming from.

[London 'Cat]

I have a question for everyone. I'm not challenging anyone's opinion here. Most of you have on this board long enough to experience some wild losses in this program. Here's the question:

Do you feel the same about Wes Miller after the EMU loss yesterday as you did about Mick Cronin after Presbyterian?

This site has lost some of our archives over the years due to random issues but I'm pretty sure a lot of us were calling for Mick's head after that loss and challenging his ability to coach offense.

I'm not defending Wes' coaching. Last night was a debacle. I'd love to be a fly on the wall in the locker room these days but I unless my memory is fuzzy the Cronin team that lost to Presbyterian made the Sweet Sixteen.

Yes, I called for Cronin to be fired after the Presbyterian loss. Cronin’s teams could not score which often led to many losses. But, there was no doubt that 1) the teams rebounded well and 2) played excellent defense. Wes’ teams do neither of those well. As sedz wrote and has been asserting since the beginning of CWM’s tenure, they do not run an effective offense. This is the reason I am ready to move on from CWM.

[Bearcat93]

Underperforming in the NCAA tournament, concluding with the 22-point Nevada comeback, doomed Cronin. In my opinion, still the right call.

[SKell82155]

I have a question for everyone. I'm not challenging anyone's opinion here. Most of you have on this board long enough to experience some wild losses in this program. Here's the question:

Do you feel the same about Wes Miller after the EMU loss yesterday as you did about Mick Cronin after Presbyterian?

This site has lost some of our archives over the years due to random issues but I'm pretty sure a lot of us were calling for Mick's head after that loss and challenging his ability to coach offense.

I'm not defending Wes' coaching. Last night was a debacle. I'd love to be a fly on the wall in the locker room these days but I unless my memory is fuzzy the Cronin team that lost to Presbyterian made the Sweet Sixteen.

Don’t remember which coach it was under, & it
musta been exhibition, but they lost to Athletes in Action.
This loss to EMU seems pretty similar to the one versus
NKU to me.

[leo from jersey]

Don’t remember which coach it was under, & it
musta been exhibition, but they lost to Athletes in Action.
This loss to EMU seems pretty similar to the one versus
NKU to me.

1992 final four team -- Bob Huggins

[Rufus]

Big difference between Mick Cronin losing to Presbyterian and yesterdays loss to EMU! Cronin brought in three star athletes and an occasional scorer and taught them how to defend, block out, rebound, run the floor, play zone when required, to pass, cherish the ball and and other crucial skills in bball. An occasional loss to a cupcake can be expected. Cronins downfall was he just didn't have the offensive horses to take the team where he needed to go, but still his players gave it their all and played hard. When they didn't they lost.

Wes Miller has a knack for getting players that are designated and rated as top scorers in the rating services but as soon as they put on the UC uniform they seem to forget how to put the ball in the rim. Particularly these last two teams. And then his teams either do not want to play for him, do not want to play bball anymore, have something else they'd rather be doing during game times, too stupid to learn how to play the other facets of the game, or Miller and his staff are negligent in their duties of teaching how to play bball without the ball in your hand or clueless in how to teach them. Something is going on where Miller and his staff is tolerating these players just standing around on both ends of the court and only looking for their chance to shoot. And don't misunderstand what I'm saying, when you watch these last two versions of Millers team that is all they put any effort in doing is to get their chance to shoot. No one follows their own shot, no one puts any effort into getting loose balls or rebounds, you don't see them flying solo down the court if and when we do happen to get a rebound for an easy layup. These guys today are only interested in looking for a highlight for their resume. So when Miller comes out and loses to a NKU or a EMU, it's not an anomaly, it is par for course, uninspired unenergetic apathetic basketball.

[sedz]

Not even close to the same for me. I'm not moved by individual games. It's the pattern. Fifth year in the program, now in a major conference with one of the most talented rosters we've had in years. We can't put up a point per possession in three buy games? Embarrassing.

That Presbyterian loss was indeed in our sweet sixteen 2012 season. We struggled offensively to begin that season as well, failing to score a point per possession against Alabama St, Presbyterian, and Miami OH at home. But we were still hitting the offensive glass had a 6 seed the previous season with an offense ranked #53, the best under Cronin to that point. We were improving.

Three years ago with Landers Nolley bailing us out with an efficient iso game our offense was ranked #48. Two years ago our offense was #78. Last year #89. This year #173. We're going the wrong direction. Wes Miller still runs offense like it's 2010. We run a few ball screen actions with guards camped out on the wings. Hardly any flare screens, pin down screens, back door cuts, or even horns sets that are so common in today's game. We clog driving lanes with our big men and don't spread the defense with actions on the wings.

Did anyone see what Ryan Conwell said after the U of L game? He knew what we were running because we have run the same actions all four years he has played against us.
https://x.com/Knickoson42/status/1992057864974909825

[sedz]

Looked at the advanced box score from the Presbyterian game. We took 26 midrange shots and only 10 free throws! 54 points. Some things never change here no matter who the coach is.

I would love to hire someone, anyone who understands modern basketball. We've got to stop acting like the style of play that brought us success 30 years ago is still going to work now.

[BearKatz]

Not even close to the same for me. I'm not moved by individual games. It's the pattern. Fifth year in the program, now in a major conference with one of the most talented rosters we've had in years. We can't put up a point per possession in three buy games? Embarrassing.

That Presbyterian loss was indeed in our sweet sixteen 2012 season. We struggled offensively to begin that season as well, failing to score a point per possession against Alabama St, Presbyterian, and Miami OH at home. But we were still hitting the offensive glass had a 6 seed the previous season with an offense ranked #53, the best under Cronin to that point. We were improving.

Three years ago with Landers Nolley bailing us out with an efficient iso game our offense was ranked #48. Two years ago our offense was #78. Last year #89. This year #173. We're going the wrong direction. Wes Miller still runs offense like it's 2010. We run a few ball screen actions with guards camped out on the wings. Hardly any flare screens, pin down screens, back door cuts, or even horns sets that are so common in today's game. We clog driving lanes with our big men and don't spread the defense with actions on the wings.

Did anyone see what Ryan Conwell said after the U of L game? He knew what we were running because we have run the same actions all four years he has played against us.
https://x.com/Knickoson42/status/1992057864974909825

Couldn't agree more, well said!

[John P]

I have been slow to criticize the coach, until now.
Now, with his 5th different roster and more people to help, it's only getting worse.
So much talent on the roster and yet the team just looks lost.

[longtimefan]

I have been slow to criticize the coach, until now.
Now, with his 5th different roster and more people to help, it's only getting worse.
So much talent on the roster and yet the team just looks lost.

That’s the problem, these guys are all new. I was ready last night to put CWM on a slow boat to China, and if they’re still playing at this level in February, UC may do it for me. But, I would love nothing more than to see this team gel and reach the NCAA. As I said last night, the last time I booed these guys was the Presbyterian game in 2011, but they made the Sweet 16 that year. Keeping hope alive.

[leo from jersey]

Erik Martin is 0-7 this season at SC State. he's not the answer.