Big East isn't the same

[cpawstoney]

Looks like the sports writers are taking their shots against the Big East (basketball teams) as the league morphs.
http://www.cbssports.com/collegebask...ing-departures

[bcbearcat12]

Prediction: The Big East will dispand (as far as football is concerned) within 3-4 years....the state of the conference is purdy un-inspiring.

[98bearcat]

To argue anymore would be pointless as we both will just keep saying the same thing only with different sentences. We'll have to shelf this difference of opinions and see what happens over the next 3-4 years. Can we set a reminder for this thread to pop back up again in that time-frame?

[CincyEngGrad02]

UNC: Dean Smith, Bill Guthrie, Matt Doherty Roy Williams.

UK: Rick Pitino, Tubby Smith, Billy Gillispie, John Calipari

Hmm, maybe that's also true if you're one of those programs?

Very good point. I feel like any type of success at those schools during Doherty and Gillispe was in SPITE of them, not because of them.

[Nerf]

My facts are plain and simple, unless you are UK, UNC, UCLA, or Kansas, the coach is the ENTIRE program.

UNC: Dean Smith, Bill Guthrie, Matt Doherty Roy Williams.

UK: Rick Pitino, Tubby Smith, Billy Gillispie, John Calipari

Hmm, maybe that's also true if you're one of those programs?

Tom Crean left Marquette.

In 9 seasons at Marquette, Crean had a .664 winning percentage, 5 NCAA appearances, and 5 NCAA tournament wins.

In 4 seasons at Marquette, Williams has a .685 winning percentage, 4 NCAA tournament appearances, and 5 NCAA tournament wins, with NO D-Wade to carry the team any of those seasons.

I will leave the comparison of Pittsburgh under Howland vs. Jamie Dixon as an exercise for the reader.

[CincyEngGrad02]

My facts are plain and simple, unless you are UK, UNC, UCLA, or Kansas, the coach is the ENTIRE program.

Coach Cal left Memphis. What they did while he was there is irrelevant now.

Coach Calhoun left UCONN. What they do now is irrelevant compared to when he was there.

Tom Crean left Marquette.

All of those coaches left the programs in good situations, but none of the replacement coaches are as good as the ones I listed above.

The year after Micheal Jordan left the Bulls, do you think people were saying "Man the Bulls have won 6 championships in the past 8 years. They'll probably win 3 or 4 more in the next 5 years or so."

[98bearcat]

I would lay claim that Memphis going forward will be better than any in the ACC except Duke, UNC, and Syracuse..... You can't fight back with expectations because NOBODY ever fulfills them in basketball, except Kentucky now and then. Like my first sentence here, you'll agree that I have nothing to back that up except expectations and that's what your doing. Give me actual game results, which I just did in my previous post above. You have your opinion, with no past facts to back it up. And I have my opinion, with proven recent records and achievements. It's as if your using pre-season rankings as the measuring stick for a teams greatness when those ranking are the biggest compiling of worthless opinions we see every year. I guess all we can do is look back in 4 years and see what the actual results were.

[CincyEngGrad02]

Wow that information is incredibly inaccurate... What do you define as FF caliber teams?? Lets keep it simple, lets just look at how many different teams has each conference placed in the FF over the past 8 years. It doesn't matter beyond that because it's too long ago to be considered a factor.

Um I'm going to disagree that it doesn't matter beyond that.

Memphis went to the Final Four some years back with Cal. Pastner hasn't shown me he's going to get back there. Great recruiter and may get there one day, but nothing shows me they are a perennial FF contender each year.

Same goes with UConn. If Calhoun was there, I'd agree with you. But Ollie? Not so sure about that.

Marquette went with Crean and D-Wade. Again, not a perennial FF contender each year with Buzz.

I could split GTown and Nova with you and say that between those 2, you might have 1 with a good shot at the FF most years. So with that said, the BEast would have 2 "guaranteed" FF contenders each year.

[catscratchfever]

Keith, Having followed Goodman on twitter for some time, I would bet Goodman would stay true to his drinking buddy Mack regardless of what league Mack is in. It isn't so much about X.

a few weeks back I noticed on twitter that Chris Mack's wife tweeted a message to Goodman asking him if he would be able to stop by for dinner when he was in the area on an upcoming visit...true story..dude is a family friend of the head gangsta
this is the same "journalist" who had X as a Final Four darkhorse last year, and just today, left Cash Wright off of his top 50 PG list while including incoming Xavier (OH) freshman Semaj Christen

[98bearcat]

Wow that information is incredibly inaccurate... What do you define as FF caliber teams?? Lets keep it simple, lets just look at how many different teams has each conference placed in the FF over the past 8 years. It doesn't matter beyond that because it's too long ago to be considered a factor. And don't tell me you have to take their history in consideration, because if you do then you make like 8+ teams in the big east FF caliber... your list is complete fantasy.. There are more new (Beast) teams that have been in the FF in the last 8 years than any other conference... the number is 5 different teams.. lets look at the Big12, ohh 1 team.. guess who Kansas, but they have WV now so it's 2 teams, but nobody else from the Big12 ever gets there. So if you look at the past 8 years and extend that into the future with the new teams:

BEast: 5 different teams in the FF in last 8 years (doesn't include any teams that left/leaving)
Big10: 3 different teams in the FF in the last 8 years
ACC: 2 different teams in the FF in last 8 years (this includes all new members)
B12: 2 different teams in the FF in the last 8 years
SEC: 2 different teams in the FF in the last 8 years
Pac10: 1 tea in the FF in the last 8 years.

I'd say the New BEasts record in putting teams in the FF far outshines all the other conferences. Can't argue those facts.

[CincyEngGrad02]

From a previous post:

1. ACC (Duke, UNC, NC State, ND, Pitt, Cuse, FSU, Miami) - 3 to 4 Final Four caliber teams every year
2. Big 10 (OSU, Mich, Mich St, Wisky, IU, Purdue) - 2 to 3 FF caliber teams
3. Big12 (Kansas, WVU, K-State, Baylor, Texas) - 2 FF caliber teams
4. BEast (Nova, GTown, Louisville, UC, Memphis, Marquette, UConn) - 1 FF caliber team
5. SEC (UK, Tenn, Fla, Vandy, Missouri) - 1 FF caliber team

3 and 4 are tossups, could go either way.

[98bearcat]

Gotta admit Goodman is right (no duh, huh?). While the BEast will still be a top 3-4 conference, it no longer will be #1 in basketball. That title will stay with the ACC in the near future.

Couldn't disagree more. First off, our top 6 will compete with the top 6 of any schools in any conference.. Period, there isn't even an argument against that. I've never cared about the top to bottom analysis because all that matters is your top teams and BEast will still be at the top. Now will they be #1, well, we'll have to let performance on the court speak over the next couple years but 3 or 4!!! what are you smoking?? I understand some saying the ACC has taken #1 but who is number 2 over the BEast in your eyes??

[CincyEngGrad02]

Gotta admit Goodman is right (no duh, huh?). While the BEast will still be a top 3-4 conference, it no longer will be #1 in basketball. That title will stay with the ACC in the near future.

[Lobot]

Assuming this is true, I suspect his tone would change completely if Eggs-avier were somehow to get into the Big East.

Keith, Having followed Goodman on twitter for some time, I would bet Goodman would stay true to his drinking buddy Mack regardless of what league Mack is in. It isn't so much about X.

[jkwuc89]

Jeff Goodman is a notorious UC hater...guy is family friends with Chris Mack and takes every chance he can to blast UC and pump up X. He is the same guy who had X as a dark horse final four team last year haha.
Not to mention the fact that he is one ugly looking mofo

Assuming this is true, I suspect his tone would change completely if Eggs-avier were somehow to get into the Big East.