More proof the Big 12 needs to add us!!

[1977 BearCat]

What is not be discussed here is TV ratings. The Big 12 is effectively Southwest Conference 2.0, a conference that died in part because it was primarily a Texas conference and had only 1 true name school, Texas. The Big 12 as now structured has 2 name schools but again, based on population footprint, a Texas conference and it shows in the TV ratings. Look at the ratings for the top ten match-up 2 weeks ago between TCU and KSU. Terrible. This is a problem for the Big 12 not only with Fox/ESPN but for recognition on a national basis.

Rating Viewers Time Away Net


Saturday, November 15
6.4 10.27M 3:30 PM Mississippi St./Alabama CBS
5.3 8.74M 8:00 PM FSU/Miami ABC
3.7 5.73M 12:00 PM Ohio State/Minnesota ABC
2.6 4.61M 7:15 PM Auburn/Georgia ESPN
2.4 4.03M 3:30 PM Nebraska/Wisconsin ABC
1.8 3.00M 3:30 PM Northwestern/Notre Dame NBC
1.3 1.81M 12:00 PM Clemson/Ga. Tech ESPN
1.2 1.87M 10:45 PM Arizona St./Oregon St. ESPN
1.1 1.91M 7:30 PM Texas/Oklahoma State FOX
1.0 1.85M 8:00 PM LSU/Arkansas ESPN2


Saturday, November 8
5.3 9.11M 8:00 PM Alabama/LSU CBS
4.4 7.21M 3:30 PM Texas A&M/Auburn CBS
3.9 6.83M 8:00 PM Ohio State/Michigan St. ABC
3.0 4.67M 3:30 PM Notre Dame/Arizona State ABC
1.9 2.74M 12:00 PM Georgia/Kentucky ESPN
1.6 2.70M 10:30 PM Oregon/Utah ESPN
1.3 2.25M 7:30 PM Kansas St./TCU FOX
1.3 2.05M 12:00 PM Baylor/Oklahoma FS1
1.2 1.91M 6:30 PM Virginia/FSU ESPN

[bearcatbret]

Actually, UC played some pretty marquee teams in the 80's. My recollection about those UC teams is that they would play the big teams fairly well in the first half but then would wear down in the second half because lack of depth, they would get injured, then have to play the rest of the season with their second/third strings which then allowed us to lose to the teams left on the schedule that we should have been able to beat. I also believe that we moved to riverfront for a percentage of our games because the NCAA required a certain seating capacity of the home stadium and Nippert did not meet those requirements. We still played a few games at Nippert those years but listed Riverfront as our home.

The links below show that we played Virginia Tech, West Virginia, Auburn, Miami, Penn State.

1986 - http://www.fanbase.com/Cincinnati-Be...-Football-1986
1987 - http://www.fanbase.com/Cincinnati-Be...-Football-1987

[bearcatbret]

Actually, UC played some pretty marquee teams in the 80's. My recollection about those UC teams is that they would play the big teams fairly well in the first half but then would wear down in the second half because lack of depth, they would get injured, then have to play the rest of the season with their second/third strings which then allowed us to lose to the teams left on the schedule that we should have been able to beat. I also believe that we moved to riverfront for a percentage of our games because the NCAA required a certain seating capacity of the home stadium and Nippert did not meet those requirements. We still played a few games at Nippert those years but listed Riverfront as our home.

The links below show that we played Virginia Tech, West Virginia, Auburn, Miami, Penn State.

1986 - http://www.fanbase.com/Cincinnati-Be...-Football-1986
1987 - http://www.fanbase.com/Cincinnati-Be...-Football-1987

[swilsonsp4]

Why did UC stay independent in football?

UC was considered to be an outlaw school throughout the 70's & 80's. The academics were mediocre (at best) in most of the colleges (except DAAP, Engineering and Medicine). Attendance was horrible in a day when Nippert held only 26K and had been condemned, forcing the Cats to play at Riverfront Stadium. We went on probation after Tony Mason left as head coach, because of indiscretions during his tenure. The facilities were pathetic. The locker room at Nippert was under the stands, replete with dripping water and roaming rats. The band room was down there, too.

Then, the losing started in spades under Ralph Staub, Dave Curry and Tim Murphy (who remains at Harvard after leaving here following the 1992 season).

Probably the most embarrassing event in the programs' history from that era were the three-weeks(!) in which Lou Saban (Nicks' dad) was UC's AD, after having been an AFL/NFL head coach. He just pulled up stakes and quit. I don't recall why.

The only big programs to come to Cincy to play us were Penn State (independent), Florida State (independent) and Oklahoma State (Big 8). The Cats were competitive only versus the Cowboys, losing a good game before a packed house at Nippert in the fourth quarter the week after UC had upset the Nittany Lions on the road in 1983. That night was a rarity for attendance, especially considering that the game was played during Johnny Bench Night at Riverfront (also sold out, of course). By the end of that year, UC couldn't beat anyone. They were down to their fourth-string QB by the end of the season and collapsed to 4-6-1. (Actually, that was a fairly typical record back then.) Maryland showed up in 1975, but they were merely decent. Kentucky was here too, but they weren't even close to decent.

One of the worst UC games I ever attended was during the Curry era when the Cats lost to Indiana State (I believe 40-16) before 5,000 or so fans at the Hoosier Dome.

So, no. We weren't going to get an invite anywhere. It took creation of another league (C-USA) to get us out of Independent Purgatory.

[longtimefan]

Based on things I've heard on the interwebz and a reporter I talked to at the Dallas Morning News it's unlikely that the Big 12 will expand soon. In my conversation with Chuck Carlton from the DMN, he stated that it would take several misses in the CFP to tilt them towards expansion solely for that reason. Others have told me that this is more about TV contracts and media markets and that any expansion is unlikely until the current TV deal winds up. It's alo about footprint. The Big 12 wants, in addition to UC, access to the Florida market for recruiting and TV and that would mean adding UCF and not UConn.

Maybe from a Texas perspective it would take several misses, but the teams getting bypassed may look at it differently. I could see some friction develop among league members, especially if somebody gets blown out in a playoff after edging out a B12 team. The fact you are seeing some noise from ESPN on this may also mean something, because we all know who really calls the shots in CFB.

[cpawstoney]

apathy? The people running the place at that time did not have the foresight to see the money maker it could be. Football was just another sport they had to fund. Don't know for sure, but that's my best guess.

[red_n_black_attack]

UC needs this to happen not other way around

Brent's spot on. This ain't happenin.

You are right, an invite isn't happening unless it is good for the receiving conference. The money for a new TV deal could make it cost neutral or maybe a slight increase enough to cover the additional travel considerations for the existing Big 12 members.

The whole decision will be based on money. This is much worse than being the last team left out of the NCAA Tourney, though it feels similar to be on the outside looking in.


I remember listening to the radio broadcast when UC beat Penn State and as a student when football went from Independent to (I think it was the Great Midwest for few years then C-USA). It's sad to see some of our old Metro Conference partners like South Carolina, Va Tech, Fla St, Loserville and Georgia Tech playing in a stronger football conferences while we are left holding the bag. Though it was defection of these schools that led to the demise of the Metro, it wasn't until C-USA that we were no longer a football independent.

Could some of those on here a little older than me help me understand why we stayed independent in football for so long? Were there any opportunities to join one the Power Five conference? I know there was a study to form a 16 team super conference in 1990, but the powers that be still didn't grasp the potential money made by getting with a tv contract where football carries the day.

Why did UC stay independent in football?

[CincyEngGrad02]

Based on things I've heard on the interwebz and a reporter I talked to at the Dallas Morning News it's unlikely that the Big 12 will expand soon. In my conversation with Chuck Carlton from the DMN, he stated that it would take several misses in the CFP to tilt them towards expansion solely for that reason. Others have told me that this is more about TV contracts and media markets and that any expansion is unlikely until the current TV deal winds up. It's alo about footprint. The Big 12 wants, in addition to UC, access to the Florida market for recruiting and TV and that would mean adding UCF and not UConn.

Brent's spot on. This ain't happenin.

[Bearcats1232002]

This is all about UC and no one really cares about UConn other than the fact that they would enhance any basketball conference and if the Big 12 were to expand it would most likely be 2 teams. UConn is only a speculative option and no one thinks we need to be any sort of package.

There isn't a package deal and I definitely think we should look out for ourselves but I want Uconn to go with us. Their basketball pedigree is every bit as good as Duke, North Carolina and Kentucky. Maybe they can build their football program. While in the Big East they did make it to a BCS bowl.

[RedDog]

This is all about UC and no one really cares about UConn other than the fact that they would enhance any basketball conference and if the Big 12 were to expand it would most likely be 2 teams. UConn is only a speculative option and no one thinks we need to be any sort of package.

[bearcatbret]

I really do not see the love for UConn. UC needs to look out for themselves. Did UL bring UC along to the ACC? No. I wish they had but they were looking for their own survival. UC and UConn do not have a history, not like UC and UL had.

[TheDog]

UConn will never be a member of the Big 12. When the ACC chose Louisville that really hurt UConn in the conference change game. However the Big 12 would be smart add UC as soon they can along with another university. The problem for UC is that there really is no other university that they want to keep the conference even and allow for a championship game. BYU does not seem to have their affection, and the next best would be UCF.

Agree, I think UC appears to be the only real "no brainer" choice at the moment. The Big 12 screwed up by not inviting Louisville and UC when they had the chance. For this reason I don't have much faith in the Big 12 to be any more competent than the old Big East when it comes to conference survival. I guess the next team in would be UCF or BYU but the Big 12 seems stubborn to pull the trigger.

It will be interesting to see what happens if Baylor and TCU both finish 11-1 and don't make the playoffs. The lack of a conference championship game will be one reason.

[Lobot]

Based on things I've heard on the interwebz and a reporter I talked to at the Dallas Morning News it's unlikely that the Big 12 will expand soon. In my conversation with Chuck Carlton from the DMN, he stated that it would take several misses in the CFP to tilt them towards expansion solely for that reason. Others have told me that this is more about TV contracts and media markets and that any expansion is unlikely until the current TV deal winds up. It's alo about footprint. The Big 12 wants, in addition to UC, access to the Florida market for recruiting and TV and that would mean adding UCF and not UConn.

[longtimefan]

UConn will never be a member of the Big 12. When the ACC chose Louisville that really hurt UConn in the conference change game. However the Big 12 would be smart add UC as soon they can along with another university. The problem for UC is that there really is no other university that they want to keep the conference even and allow for a championship game. BYU does not seem to have their affection, and the next best would be UCF.

It would be great to add UC and UCONN, as that would create a BB powerhouse to rival the ACC. Unfortunately UCONN FB is way down, but Rutgers and Maryland are not exactly FB elite either. The geography would be worse for UCONN than UC. The Big 12 footprint is about the same as the old MVC where we played for many years.

[RedDog]

Knowing that these decisions are often more about footprints and TV markets and exposure and recruiting than they really are about athletic and academic programs (those are nice but secondary), UConn has to still be in play. I would think however that a Florida team would make a lot more sense. For UC the move would be a real geographical challenge so someone in our neck of the woods would be preferred, although I guess WVu would be a natural travel partner for our visitors.