Zach Harvey

[Bearcat93]

I just would have liked to have seen Harvey start 4-5 games and get 25-ish minutes in those games, just to see how he would have done. It seemed like we were almost at that point, then not. Who knows.

[coach]

Playing time + production should equal more playing time. Not the case with Harvey. A top-50 guy isn’t going to wait 3 years for a chance to play. He’s not going to sit behind MAW and Mason Madsen.

Come on, his production in games over 15 minutes the past couple years has not been off the chart. He's definitely shown better this year when he's been healthy, but we're not talking about a guy who the other team scheme's to shut down. Time will tell when you see first 1. where he lands and 2. what he does there. However, his offensive production was not off the charts whereby he was going to be playing ahead of both Madsen and MAW who have been solid contributors in this hot streak they're on. It's not an all or nothing process. I would be willing to wager as i posted above, if you are at practice on a regular basis those two consistently shoot the ball better from the perimeter and ft line than Harvey did. Since practice began back in the fall the reports have been Madsen was easily their best 3 pt threat. On a team with really tough luck shooting 3's, those guys are not going to not get minutes in place of Harvey particularly when they're winning. If Harvey would have come into the Ucf game and scored early and often i'm sure he would have had more minutes. However, the objective is to win the game. I think Eason was a top 100 guy. Does anyone think Harvey was far ahead of Eason being top 50? Harvey was a 4 star which they're are quite a few of. I can't think of to many top 100 programs right now he would be currently starting on based on what he has shown in his interrupted year and half here. He's shown he's really not above the other folks that are playing night in and night out.

RE: Madsen, The Cats are 5 and 1 since he started playing. He's averaging about 5 points a game in 11 minutes. Also, has also shot 11 ft's off the bench the past two game which he's iced. That is exactly what they were missing early in the year. There is no way he's not going to get minutes if he's healthy. He's in the rotation until he plays his way out of it. Harvey played 11 minutes Sunday and had no points, a turnover a couple fouls and a rebound. If you leave because your team won and you didn't play enough, everybody is probably better off. If you want to be a 30 minutes a game guy right now, probably go to a lower conference or show more. I liked the guy, but he's not where he needs to be to play starter minutes on most teams.

[coach]

I remember a kid huggs recruited, a big kid to play the 5. Cant remember his name, but last name started with a B, Barger or Barker, something like that maybe one of the UC bball gurus will remember but highly recruited, hyped up, and lauded over. But only made it in just a few games and Huggs would yank him after just a few minutes of play. He was lazy, uncoachable, refused to listen to any direction and was soon gone from the program. The point is reiterating RedDog is that sometimes a completed recruiting maybe isnt as good in person as it appears on paper. I wish Zach nothing but good in all that he endeavors.

You're not talking about Robert Whaley by chance?

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb...-whaley-1.html

[Rufus]

I remember a kid huggs recruited, a big kid to play the 5. Cant remember his name, but last name started with a B, Barger or Barker, something like that maybe one of the UC bball gurus will remember but highly recruited, hyped up, and lauded over. But only made it in just a few games and Huggs would yank him after just a few minutes of play. He was lazy, uncoachable, refused to listen to any direction and was soon gone from the program. The point is reiterating RedDog is that sometimes a completed recruiting maybe isnt as good in person as it appears on paper. I wish Zach nothing but good in all that he endeavors.

[RedDog]

Its very hard for some players coming out of todays pampered AAU system to adjust to the reality of earning playing time at the D1 level. I want a coach with principals and disciplines who has got the balls to enforce them. Some arbitrary high school rating system and inflated numbers all get thrown out once you arrive on campus. There are no entitlement carryovers - its time to put your big boy pants on, show some heart and character, and prove you deserve minutes. Zach couldn't make the transition. Coach will play whoever he thinks understands his process and gives us the best chance to win.
There are very good players who fall through the recruiting cracks all the time and have very nice college careers. Diamonds in the rough are fun to root for. Maybe we have some?
There are entitled, overrated players who never quite fit the college game and underachieve. Maybe we have some of those also.
Its too early on most of our guys, Zach included, to evaluate their careers. Most guys don't pay dividends until year 2 or 3 and we just aren't there. Years 1 and 2 are often spent developing skills, practice habits, strength, and learning the game. If you don't have the patience for the process, you may not have had realistic expectations coming in.

[Corporateballa]

Playing time + production should equal more playing time. Not the case with Harvey. A top-50 guy isn’t going to wait 3 years for a chance to play. He’s not going to sit behind MAW and Mason Madsen.

[leo from jersey]

What were they laughing at - the night he had 17/5 against them, or the night he had 9/11 against them?

I wish he had those for UC then maybe we would not have been crying after the losses.

[bearcat1518]

Playing behind Mason Madsen??? It’s time to GO. Madsen is a Patriot/Horizon League player. My nephew plays for West Point. They were laughing when UC signed Rap.

What were they laughing at - the night he had 17/5 against them, or the night he had 9/11 against them?

[London 'Cat]

The primary reason for his departure from the program (if in fact he does) is the speculation that he wants more playing time. If he enters the portal he would have to sit an entire year before being allowed to play for another team. If he stays he would be almost guaranteed a starters spot here if he was progressing as typical cases prove and nothing drastic occurs. He would be a junior, the senior whose spot he usually comes in for will have moved on, and have had another years experience under his belt, so this leads me to believe that the lack of playing time now is a decision by the coaching staff based on something we as fans are not privy to.

I'm not so sure about this. The rules have changed with COVID but I don't know whether a player will have to sit out an entire year after transferring. Plus, the way the NCAA is granting waivers to play immediately, this is nothing definite anymore. His decision does seem illogical, but none off us really know what the real story is. Perhaps CJB is an onerous coach; perhaps Harvey was homesick; maybe a little of each. We may never know. I wish Harvey the best going forward, and if he returns next year, I for one will be very glad.

[swilsonsp4]

Here's Justin William's article ($) just out. Essentially, Harvey was unhappy with the whole situation, including playing time and an inability to feel at home in Cincy.

https://theathletic.com/2393394/2021...nati-bearcats/

[Rufus]

The primary reason for his departure from the program (if in fact he does) is the speculation that he wants more playing time. If he enters the portal he would have to sit an entire year before being allowed to play for another team. If he stays he would be almost guaranteed a starters spot here if he was progressing as typical cases prove and nothing drastic occurs. He would be a junior, the senior whose spot he usually comes in for will have moved on, and have had another years experience under his belt, so this leads me to believe that the lack of playing time now is a decision by the coaching staff based on something we as fans are not privy to.

[London 'Cat]

Oh I'm sure ZH is disappointed with lack of playing time. It could very well be the reason he's leaving.
My point was more aimed to "why" he lacked the PT. I'm sure we'll never really know the answer. There's a reason the coach is leaving him on the bench as much as he has.
FWIW I like seeing MAW on the floor, I think he brings a lot to the table.

MAW is too inconsistent. He plays fairy well in some games and does not in others. If he were more reliable on both sides of the ball, I would like him better. But, he has improved over last year, which is what we hope for all players - continued improvement year after year.

[John P]

It may be too early to beat up on CJB, but this latest development seems to indicate a trend that is at least disturbing. His coaching decisions in terms of PT are puzzling. Harvey’s last game in which he played significant minutes was a career high in points and really looked like he was coming into his own. None of us know how much COVID affected Harvey’s PT. but we can all infer from Harvey opting out that it was a factor based on how little PT he has garnered following the team’s suspension of play. We can certainly question CJB’s coaching at this point. IMO, his leash just shortened and his seat grew slightly warm.

Oh I'm sure ZH is disappointed with lack of playing time. It could very well be the reason he's leaving.
My point was more aimed to "why" he lacked the PT. I'm sure we'll never really know the answer. There's a reason the coach is leaving him on the bench as much as he has.
FWIW I like seeing MAW on the floor, I think he brings a lot to the table.

[RedDog]

Lobot referred to some of them. How hard it was to get him in at UC mainly. There were other schools that passed on him also for non basketball reasons. We got him pretty late in the process and I surely don't know the details on why he was available so late, so I just referred to them as extenuating circumstances.

[red_n_black_attack]

Well as Marvin Lewis would say. It doesn't matter how you got here, just make the most of it. Did ZH have any problems that we know of at UC. Was there someting besides covid that caused a lack of PT. We might never know, when the Cats took ZH then we needed to go forward and not look behind.

By all accounts he was a model citizen/student, per the Justin Williams article.