Houston 2/27 7:00 ESPN2

[leo from jersey]

The bigger reality is simply that the players, coach, and fans aren't able to meet the expectations of the Big 12 this season. This is the toughest, day in and out league in a long, long time. We came in with players, coaching and fans that have never run this marathon, let alone even a Thanksgiving Day 5k. You can point to the Big East Era, but those teams and staff never got to the finish line before the league fell apart and lived in the basement of it for 3/4's of our membership. Things are trending very positive. The kids care. The coach cares. The fans care. This team as 8 Devonta Vaughn's. Support these players and they'll teach the incoming players what to expect and how to prepare for the Big 12. Support the coach and you'll see him grow to meet the expectations. Support the University because we are Bearcats through and through. We have a five-game stretch to finish the season that would have been our 5 hardest games in the last decade if you take away Houston in the American. They are not guaranteed wins. Then we run into a tournament that requires 5 wins in 5 days that would crown a Defacto National Championship based on the teams we'd face.

Our current fanbase has grown tremendously in size in the last decade due to enrollment. The newer alumni/fans are used to success where the past is more compassionate to where we started and how we've grown. Success at UC is not instant and not promised, as it may feel to the newer alumni. The knee-jerk opinions for new coach/new players/new whatever have to be checked at the door. Hard work, determination, and support have always been the recipe for success at UC. Let's build and support this team as a fanbase through the finish.

some of us old folks have seen final fours from a new coach. Elite eights too. Heck I even saw a couple of National Championships even after losing the best player in school, if not all of college history. They were won with a first year coach too.

[Big_Daddy_Bearcat_07]

You're not wrong but I'm guessing that the 1986 OVC schedule (I was 3) didn't match up to the 2024 Big 12 schedule

[sedz]

Leo, I don't disagree here. I said at the top of this thread that the first 8:00 would determine the game. I said that because Houston likes to jump on you from the opening tip. I'm not patting myself on the back here but that was a failure on the Bearcats part because you'd think the staff and team knew that was coming. The result was us never leading during the entire game despite fighting back the whole time.

Regardless of Houston's M.O., we are very often not ready to play out of the gate even at home and it puzzles me as to why.

What should the staff have done differently to prepare? In the opening four minutes we got 3 shots from deep from our best perimeter shooters (Simas and Jizzle), 4 shots at the rim, 3 offensive rebounds, and no turnovers. Only got two points out of that. Not sure what else the staff can do. The players have to put the ball in the basket.

Every team wants to jump out in front from the opening tip. I don't think Houston does it any more than expected given they are winning most games by double digits. They've had a lot of games where they fell behind early (Utah, Texas A&M, Iowa St, Kansas). In all of those games they were down at least 7 in the opening 5 minutes. Even against bad teams, Texas A&M Corpus Christi was winning 8 minutes into the game. Rice was winning 7 minutes in. Jackson St had a lead 10 minutes in.

I guess my point is it's not worth splitting the game up into segments. We're not a top 40 team in efficiency (on Kenpom or Torvik). That's where we need to be if we want to consistently make the tournament. It's not like we're a good team that just starts slow. We're just not that good. There are some good pieces to build on though.

[D.A.H.]

What should the staff have done differently to prepare? In the opening four minutes we got 3 shots from deep from our best perimeter shooters (Simas and Jizzle), 4 shots at the rim, 3 offensive rebounds, and no turnovers. Only got two points out of that. Not sure what else the staff can do. The players have to put the ball in the basket.

Every team wants to jump out in front from the opening tip. I don't think Houston does it any more than expected given they are winning most games by double digits. They've had a lot of games where they fell behind early (Utah, Texas A&M, Iowa St, Kansas). In all of those games they were down at least 7 in the opening 5 minutes. Even against bad teams, Texas A&M Corpus Christi was winning 8 minutes into the game. Rice was winning 7 minutes in. Jackson St had a lead 10 minutes in.

I guess my point is it's not worth splitting the game up into segments. We're not a top 40 team in efficiency (on Kenpom or Torvik). That's where we need to be if we want to consistently make the tournament. It's not like we're a good team that just starts slow. We're just not that good. There are some good pieces to build on though.

the early hole has become a habit / problem for this team. at this point, there shouldn't be any surprises from the opponents - they all know each too well. when you see the same opening segment (big hole early) over and over, we need to wonder if the preparation is there or not.

[leo from jersey]

What should the staff have done differently to prepare? In the opening four minutes we got 3 shots from deep from our best perimeter shooters (Simas and Jizzle), 4 shots at the rim, 3 offensive rebounds, and no turnovers. Only got two points out of that. Not sure what else the staff can do. The players have to put the ball in the basket.

Every team wants to jump out in front from the opening tip. I don't think Houston does it any more than expected given they are winning most games by double digits. They've had a lot of games where they fell behind early (Utah, Texas A&M, Iowa St, Kansas). In all of those games they were down at least 7 in the opening 5 minutes. Even against bad teams, Texas A&M Corpus Christi was winning 8 minutes into the game. Rice was winning 7 minutes in. Jackson St had a lead 10 minutes in.

I guess my point is it's not worth splitting the game up into segments. We're not a top 40 team in efficiency (on Kenpom or Torvik). That's where we need to be if we want to consistently make the tournament. It's not like we're a good team that just starts slow. We're just not that good. There are some good pieces to build on though.

The team while taking shots were too anxious and nervous. Last Saturday they were asleep. Whose job is to get them ready. Being prepared is not taking shots, but shooting well. In my opinion. A coach can usually see the mood of his team. You work between games to get them adjusted to start the game. It doesn't always happen, but it should happen every once in a while. We do play better as the game gets going. It is just hard to overcome horrid starts. They played their rivals who have beaten us many times in a row and now were ranked #1 on national tv. Hard not to be nervous and anxious, but it has to be dealt with. You are 100% right we are not a very good team just individuals who play in spurts. Oh, for a floor leader.

[sedz]

I don't think we're seeing slow starts over and over. It's happened the last two games, so we're talking about it. But we jumped out to huge early leads at UCF and against OK St. We were within 5 points of Iowa St for the first 18 minutes. We were up 9 at Texas Tech after 6 minutes. We had a 5 point lead at West Virginia after 4 minutes. A 9 point lead after 4 minutes at home against UCF. An early 5 point lead against Oklahoma. A 5-0 start against Dayton.

Short term issues are hot topics for fans. But many of them revert to averages over the course of a season.

[leo from jersey]

I don't think we're seeing slow starts over and over. It's happened the last two games, so we're talking about it. But we jumped out to huge early leads at UCF and against OK St. We were within 5 points of Iowa St for the first 18 minutes. We were up 9 at Texas Tech after 6 minutes. We had a 5 point lead at West Virginia after 4 minutes. A 9 point lead after 4 minutes at home against UCF. An early 5 point lead against Oklahoma. A 5-0 start against Dayton.

Short term issues are hot topics for fans. But many of them revert to averages over the course of a season.

Each game is its own separate entity. A coach has to get inside the heads of his players and steer them to positive results. We have discussed over and over the horrid first halves the Cats have had and many say they are a second half team. I think the results show that. A player has to be mentally prepared for what good is a plan if for some reason it isn't being executed. Sparky Anderson once said when asks how he gets the Big Red machine acting to their best. He replied "you treat the men like men and the boys like boys". You have to understand the level each is at and handle them accordingly. Before many a game, I have seen fear anxiety, lackadaisicalness etc. I know the Coaches see it and they have to prepare for that. You win with People and how they are motivated, comforted and skilled. You plan on that first and then you incorporate stats. It is all one big game plan, but the attitude of the team is first. Stats presents the past. Dealing with your team before each game presents the now. So many variances in a game plan both plausible and viable/

“You never know how a horse will pull until you hook him to a heavy load.” ~ Bear Bryant

[sedz]

Each game is its own separate entity. A coach has to get inside the heads of his players and steer them to positive results. We have discussed over and over the horrid first halves the Cats have had and many say they are a second half team.

So when we have fast starts, Wes gets the credit? If a team has en equal number of fast starts and slow starts, is their coach just average? And since that's true of almost every team, is the coach irrelevant?

[leo from jersey]

So when we have fast starts, Wes gets the credit? If a team has en equal number of fast starts and slow starts, is their coach just average? And since that's true of almost every team, is the coach irrelevant?

changing the subject. The starts are variances in conditions and as I said before may not be reachable. There are much more than past actions based on the perfect tense in grammar -A past act with ongoing repercussions. This is very rare in live action sports. Sometimes, yes, the coach doesn't reach or push the right motivational/comfort button. You didn't figure that variable in your black/white static thought. Again, we are dealing with humans and not machines.


Paul Brown said that the key to winning is poise under stress.-- There are many kinds of stress that a past stat can't determine. Each game is different or why would we even play them. This isn't strat o matic or computerized games. Again, consider the stats but consider your team at the particular moment and adapt accordingly. “Earn your Leadership everyday.” – Michael Jordan

[sedz]

We're sitting here judging a coach by the score after 4 minutes (but only in the games we're losing after 4 minutes). I'm trying to reduce that black/white static thought.

[leo from jersey]

4 minutes was the difference. The team wasn't ready (mentally) again. They were on edge and it showed in their shooting. They couldn't relax to concentrate. They were not poised under pressure and the Coaches needed to have dealt with it. Different game different pressures, but they need to be recognized and dealt with You are changing the people aspect with judging on 4 minutes. Why do you avoid the human aspect of a game and just the static stats. Don't you see that you win and lose with people, and it is the people who play the games.

[sedz]

Is Wes Miller not a person? Why does he not get any of your leadership quotes when he leads us to a fast start? Why do we only comment on the slow starts?

This discussion is about psychology, the most human of the sciences. It's about us, as people, not stats. What we choose to focus on.

The clustering illusion is the tendency to erroneously consider the inevitable "streaks" or "clusters" arising in small samples from random distributions to be non-random. The illusion is caused by a human tendency to underpredict the amount of variability likely to appear in a small sample.

[leo from jersey]

Sedz - May I ask you this question. If the stats and not the people is what wins a game, why did CWM say stop ragging on my guys on social media. They are not indifferent to extra things besides past game stats in the equation. ( I also think he was just upset and he had to lay the blame somewhere). Why did Huggins kick E. Martin off the court?

[sedz]

Sedz - May I ask you this question. If the stats and not the people is what wins a game, why did CWM say stop ragging on my guys on social media. They are not indifferent to extra things besides past game stats in the equation. ( I also think he was just upset and he had to lay the blame somewhere). Why did Huggins kick E. Martin off the court?

I have never said this. I have always said that stats measure what happened in the game. People plan for the game and perform in the game. Stats measure the outcome. If the people are making positive changes, it will show up statistically. It's how you tell what works.

The main benefit of statistics is they can overcome our human biases. Fans have seen two consecutive slow starts and are prone to conclude that we always start slow. But our slow starts aren't any more common than would be expected with random variability.

[longtimefan]

All I know is this, we played the #1 team on the road, and it was a two possession game under a minute to go. There is nothing to complain about there.

How other teams lost at Houston:
West Virginia 89-55
Texas Tech 79-54
UCF 57-42
K-State 74-52
OK-State 79-63
Texas 82-61
Iowa State 73-65

ISU and UC had the closest margins there. Nobody else even close. So I guess the complaint is that we couldn’t beat #1 on the road.