Outgoing Portal

[Lobot]

Sage is local only one year if I remember correctly. Did he not grow up in Hawaii and transferred here for his senior year of high school. I apologize if I am incorrectly recalling this.

You are close if not completely correct.

[sedz]

Kaufman-Renn might start but he is not in their main 5 man unit. Against Tennessee he played 15 minutes and took only one shot with zero assists, zero steals or blocks, and only one rebound. He's not a key piece. For most of the game, including high leverage situations, Purdue plays 4 guards.

Nelson is quick and athletic like a wing. His interior scoring largely comes from driving the ball, not back to the basket post play. He can defend the perimeter. If we can find 6'11" guys like that, great. If Kevin Durant shows up in the portal, sign him. That's not the distinction I'm making. I'm talking about traditional big men who can't play on the perimeter. We had four of them on the roster this year and I don't think we need more than two and can get by with only one.

Karaban, as you point out, is also not a traditional big. He's a stretch 4 who can defend multiple positions. He's the kind of guy I'm talking about that I'd like to bring in. I'd say his game is closer to a wing than a center. Being third on the team in blocked shots isn't saying much when you're one of only 3 players who averages over 27 minutes. His block rate is 2.6, that's one of every 38 twos he faces, same as Skillings. His rebounding rates are lower than Newman. He doesn't have any more of a power game than Dan does, and that's my point. We're better off with guys like that than just going for size.

Nelson is a good example to focus on. He's 6'11" with all-around skills. If we have to choose between his size or his skillset, which is more important? I'm willing to give up 4 inches to find a guy with the same skillset rather than NBA size but limited skills. We have had slow, one dimensional big men here since 2018. You don't see winning teams feature that either in college or the NBA.

[leeraymond]

Karaban is a stretch 4, he doesn't rebound, block shots, or score back to the basket in the post like a traditional big. Purdue plays 4 guards. Pringle is the only traditional big on Alabama, the others are 6'10" but athletic and play more like wings. NC St is the only team that plays a traditional two big lineup.

But look at how good the final four traditional big men are. None of them are one dimensional. Clingan and Edey dominate at both ends. Alabama's guys can all create their own shot. Burns is one of the best creators in the game as a post player. The problem is big men like that are rare in college basketball. If you can find one, of course pick him up. But running bigs out there just because they are big is not a great recipe. That's my argument. We don't HAVE to roster big men. We need guys who can score and defend. There are a lot of players like that under 6'9", and I would much rather have four of them on the court than a one dimensional big.

Purdue starts two traditional big men, Edey and Kaufman-Renn (6'9" power forward). He very seldom will take a three, but he is NOT a three-point shooter. His game is on the inside. Alabama starts two big men, Pringle and Grant Nelson (6'11"). Nelson can step out and shoot the three but he shoots just 27% from 3 and has only taken 106 threes on the season. Most of his scoring comes from the paint and inside the arc. You make it appear that Karaban does NOT do anything but play offense. Karaban is the 3rd best rebounder on the team with 4.9 rebounds a game and is the 3rd best shot-blocker on the team with 29 block shots on the season. So although he takes about 55% of his shots from three, he still can play a power game. He is a 4 that can shoot the three. Karaban perhaps is the least traditional of all the bigs in the Final Four.

All the teams in the Final Four have good size in the paint. That is my point. Even at the NBA level, I have only seen two smaller teams make the NBA Finals in the last ten years or so, Golden State and the COVID year Miami Heat (that was a very good defensive team). However, the Lakers with their size beat Miami that year. By the way, Davis can score inside and from three, but according to some basketball analysts, his best work comes on the defensive side in the paint. I got to run. I have a meeting to get to.

[Rufus]

Sage is local only one year if I remember correctly. Did he not grow up in Hawaii and transferred here for his senior year of high school. I apologize if I am incorrectly recalling this.

[leo from jersey]

While in rare cases D1 players drop down to junior college level, if that was an option for Sage, it won't be at Cincinnati State. They "suspended" all intercollegiate athletics, except soccer, in 2017 for budgetary reasons. All of the coaches were terminated. There is no indication that athletics will return.

That said, I believe that the handwriting was on the wall for Sage when CWM brought in two bigs via the portal. Tolentino had already sat out one season and now essentially two, although he doesn't qualify for a second red shirt. Whether he has local ties or not, I expect him to enter the portal and end up at a MAC or equivalent school.

Groovy - sorry about Cincy state - don't get a lot of their news in Jersey. Didn't John Williamson come from there? I think that is best a MAC school, but it is hard to "cut" a local especially with the HS coaches.

[swilsonsp4]

Here is some wild thinking. In this day of unlimited transfers, have him go to a school such as Cincy State. He might could start there and get plenty of practice. If he excels, he can return. This is a whole new age in college ball and I am sure this will become a normal way.

While in rare cases D1 players drop down to junior college level, if that was an option for Sage, it won't be at Cincinnati State. They "suspended" all intercollegiate athletics, except soccer, in 2017 for budgetary reasons. All of the coaches were terminated. There is no indication that athletics will return.

That said, I believe that the handwriting was on the wall for Sage when CWM brought in two bigs via the portal. Tolentino had already sat out one season and now essentially two, although he doesn't qualify for a second red shirt. Whether he has local ties or not, I expect him to enter the portal and end up at a MAC or equivalent school.

[Oldtimer_UC_fan]

It's also possible that Fredrick will manage to get healthy, avoid injury and have a John Newman like final year (or maybe two years if he can get another medical redshirt for this year). If Fredrick isn't ready to give up basketball I don't mind taking that chance, but we also need another CG because it is a gamble.

And I might win the lottery.

[sedz]

I didn't watch the tourney, but did the teams have floor leading/ball handling guards directing the offense and defense?

NC St runs everything through their big DJ Burns, who leads their team in assist rate and has a higher usage rate than any final four guard. UConn and Alabama have great 5th year senior guards. We saw a lot of Tristan Newton when he was at East Carolina, and we saw Aaron Estrada when he was at Hofstra last year. Purdue has a very good sophomore PG, who has a high assist rate but his turnover rate is higher than anyone on our team except Jamille.

As for "floor leaders", Burns clearly fills that role for NC St. I'd say 4th year senior guard Mark Sears is that guy for Alabama. UConn and Purdue are tougher to pin down. Their traditional big men are the focus of their teams. Everything starts and ends with them, but they aren't vocal leaders. I wouldn't say they really have a floor leader who stands out.

[leo from jersey]

Here is some wild thinking. In this day of unlimited transfers, have him go to a school such as Cincy State. He might could start there and get plenty of practice. If he excels, he can return. This is a whole new age in college ball and I am sure this will become a normal way.

[leo from jersey]

His spot at the end of the bench next to the walk-ons is surely still available for him if he wants it.

It was a great idea especially for a new coach to bring in a local hero. I would love for him to be the missing piece as Jeff Scott was . The excitement that a local hero brings is amazing. If not, as you said, there is a seat available. I hope he works out though.

[GoBearcats31]

hard to get rid of a local.

His spot at the end of the bench next to the walk-ons is surely still available for him if he wants it.

[leo from jersey]

My wife said the guard for Purdue did a couple things very well. Beat the trap and was able to get the ball down low to their scoring machine. Simple, but it got them into the final 4.

[leo from jersey]

I think CWM saw the experiment with a couple of the BIGS failed. It may just have been the players maturity though or even what was promised. I also see that he knows you need at least two, He has plenty of space to keep the second for the right game. The problem will be to keep the second happy in his role. I also see that CWM and a couple on this board recognizes that a ball handler is needed,
and needed badly. I didn't watch the tourney, but did the teams have floor leading/ball handling guards directing the offense and defense?

[leo from jersey]

Kenyon recorded a triple double as a sophomore and averaged about 10 points and 9 rebounds.

Sage has a total of 5 points, 3 rebounds and 1 block over two seasons.

hard to get rid of a local.

[sedz]

Check out all the teams in the Final Four. They all start the traditional two big men, especially NC State. UCONN has a 4 that plays a lot on the perimeter. However, their other bigs play inside. It's funny that in the world of positionless and small-ball basketball, the teams in the 2024 Final Four play with traditional lineups.

Karaban is a stretch 4, he doesn't rebound, block shots, or score back to the basket in the post like a traditional big. Purdue plays 4 guards. Pringle is the only traditional big on Alabama, the others are 6'10" but athletic and play more like wings. NC St is the only team that plays a traditional two big lineup.

But look at how good the final four traditional big men are. None of them are one dimensional. Clingan and Edey dominate at both ends. Alabama's guys can all create their own shot. Burns is one of the best creators in the game as a post player. The problem is big men like that are rare in college basketball. If you can find one, of course pick him up. But running bigs out there just because they are big is not a great recipe. That's my argument. We don't HAVE to roster big men. We need guys who can score and defend. There are a lot of players like that under 6'9", and I would much rather have four of them on the court than a one dimensional big.