Sad State of Bearcat Basketball

[SKell82155]

Looked at the advanced box score from the Presbyterian game. We took 26 midrange shots and only 10 free throws! 54 points. Some things never change here no matter who the coach is.

I would love to hire someone, anyone who understands modern basketball. We've got to stop acting like the style of play that brought us success 30 years ago is still going to work now.

Sedz, do you have some coaches in mind who would fit the bill as well as play defense/rebound ?

[sedz]

Wes needs to hire an assistant with a mind for offensive strategy. Like what Phil Martelli has done for Michigan.

[zykarious]

I don't think either of those are true. I do think with the Advent of NIL, coaching has gotten harder. You almost have a new team every year and I think getting a bunch of new guys who make a million or so a year to gel is hard. Wes didn't sign up for this. NIL wasn't a thing when he took the job.

Even out west Cronin took a season to figure out the NIL thing at UCLA. A lot of older successful coaches just plain retired because of NIL. It kind of like your boss coming in after you've been in a position for a while and telling you "we're rewriting all your job responsibilities going forward. Good luck"

Yeah, I think Wes was recruited to be a developmental type of coach, look at UNCG it took him 5 years to get going. He's a coach who gets to know guys, builds comradery and a desire to help the team and develops them over years. I know some will say he doesn't develop players, but look at Day Day, McKinley and Dzellat all have shown significant improvement. Most (if not all) of us would prefer that NCAA basically in a way that benefited those types of coaches, but sadly the opposite is the case right now.

He's been thrust into a world where most of the guys are one-and-done and hasn't figured it out. Everything is different with those types of guys, from motivating them to building culture and getting everything out of them in games.

I feel like he may also have bought into fans desires for five stars and high rankings a bit too much. Services don't rate the intangibles, but those often matter more.

[Lobot]

I have a question. Is Coach Miller at UC because of the money? It does not appear that he is in coaching to get better.

I don't think either of those are true. I do think with the Advent of NIL, coaching has gotten harder. You almost have a new team every year and I think getting a bunch of new guys who make a million or so a year to gel is hard. Wes didn't sign up for this. NIL wasn't a thing when he took the job.

Even out west Cronin took a season to figure out the NIL thing at UCLA. A lot of older successful coaches just plain retired because of NIL. It kind of like your boss coming in after you've been in a position for a while and telling you "we're rewriting all your job responsibilities going forward. Good luck"

[Rufus]

We can blame the NIL or the transfer portal, or even that these players are all new ( some freshmen ) and others coming from other programs comprising a whole new team every year. But this problem is not unique to UC. Other programs make it work to different extents each year. Wes Miller has had his players, those he hand selected now for four years and hasn't done anything to brag on as of yet. Each year we end up at the bottom of the conference in standings, win some games we are supposed to win, but also lose some that were not supposed to lose, but never, never, I can't think of one time a Miller team has upset anyone. I think we need to come to the conclusion that Miller and the staff that he has assembled cannot coach in a power conference. They are way in over their head. It's a shame because there have been some good players committed to UC the last few years but just couldn't seem to get it together under Miller, and continues still now. It's throwing good NIL money away when you stop to think about it. I don't understand how Miller can promise the fans and the players he recruits of a running style of game but game plans the same tempo game in and game out. The same thing can be said about Satterfield too. The art of coaching is getting the most out of every potential and these two just can't seem to do that.

[Gypo O'Leary]

I see potential in this team. It looks like it belongs in the Big 12 and last year's team didn't . The extent they looked lost against E. Mich. was because Miller didn't play. They still don't have Big 12 guards or the point guard that run an offense. Shon Abaev is not impressive. He is not quick and doesn't have great skills. He is like a taller Dan Skilling. He'll make some great plays, but then he will blow a dunk or make a turnover. You get the feeling that the NIL money is making him fat and happy. Still, to me, it seems that there are enough guys on this squad, that it should make the Big Dance. But if they go belly up, it is time for Wes to go.

[leeraymond372@gmail.com]

I have a question. Is Coach Miller at UC because of the money? It does not appear that he is in coaching to get better.

[leeraymond372@gmail.com]

I have a question for everyone. I'm not challenging anyone's opinion here. Most of you have on this board long enough to experience some wild losses in this program. Here's the question:

Do you feel the same about Wes Miller after the EMU loss yesterday as you did about Mick Cronin after Presbyterian?

This site has lost some of our archives over the years due to random issues but I'm pretty sure a lot of us were calling for Mick's head after that loss and challenging his ability to coach offense.

I'm not defending Wes' coaching. Last night was a debacle. I'd love to be a fly on the wall in the locker room these days but I unless my memory is fuzzy the Cronin team that lost to Presbyterian made the Sweet Sixteen.

Interesting question. The Presbyterian loss was bad but UC also loss to another mid-major two games later, Marshall 69-73. However, what changed the tide of the season for UC was the Xavier game and the Big Fight. A number of UC players that were involved in the fight were suspended for about 6 games or something like that. So, Cronin had to go with a 4-guard lineup (because that is all he had left on the roster) and it was the best thing that happened to his career up to that point. That 4-guard lineup ended with wins over 7 or 8 ranked teams that year. Third in the country behind Kansas and Syracuse with ranked wins.

It does not matter if a coach runs a modern offense or an old offense if you have guys that cannot make shots and do not have any toughness on offense or defense. UC has been outrebounded by two mid-majors in its last two games.

Think about this for a second, Louisville played both EMU and NJIT as UC did. Louisville beat EMU 87-46 and beat NJIT 104-47. NJIT scored 67 points on UC and EMU beat UC by scoring just 64 points. Enough said. Where is the toughness? Let's ask Coach Miller.

[Gmann]

Big difference between Mick Cronin losing to Presbyterian and yesterdays loss to EMU! Cronin brought in three star athletes and an occasional scorer and taught them how to defend, block out, rebound, run the floor, play zone when required, to pass, cherish the ball and and other crucial skills in bball. An occasional loss to a cupcake can be expected. Cronins downfall was he just didn't have the offensive horses to take the team where he needed to go, but still his players gave it their all and played hard. When they didn't they lost.

Wes Miller has a knack for getting players that are designated and rated as top scorers in the rating services but as soon as they put on the UC uniform they seem to forget how to put the ball in the rim. Particularly these last two teams. And then his teams either do not want to play for him, do not want to play bball anymore, have something else they'd rather be doing during game times, too stupid to learn how to play the other facets of the game, or Miller and his staff are negligent in their duties of teaching how to play bball without the ball in your hand or clueless in how to teach them. Something is going on where Miller and his staff is tolerating these players just standing around on both ends of the court and only looking for their chance to shoot. And don't misunderstand what I'm saying, when you watch these last two versions of Millers team that is all they put any effort in doing is to get their chance to shoot. No one follows their own shot, no one puts any effort into getting loose balls or rebounds, you don't see them flying solo down the court if and when we do happen to get a rebound for an easy layup. These guys today are only interested in looking for a highlight for their resume. So when Miller comes out and loses to a NKU or a EMU, it's not an anomaly, it is par for course, uninspired unenergetic apathetic basketball.

Thanks, Rufus for summarizing brilliantly the comparison with Huggs and Cronin's blips. Huggs and Cronin never had the depth of talent on the roster that Miller has. There were some downs with them but also many highlights. We only get valleys with Miller. He really needs to a team that is self-motivated and self-coached because he has no clue what he's doing and why bad things happen. I truly believe most coaches in the big 12 would slay with this roster yet we will be a bottom feeder once again with Miller at the helm. Everybody, including mid-major level guys outcoach him.

[London 'Cat]

Erik Martin is 0-7 this season at SC State. he's not the answer.

Martin would be more of the same - no modern offense. The game has evolved since Huggs’ era. UC needs a coach who can embrace a modern style of basketball. CWM is not it and I want UC to move in a different direction.

[leo from jersey]

Erik Martin is 0-7 this season at SC State. he's not the answer.

[longtimefan]

I have been slow to criticize the coach, until now.
Now, with his 5th different roster and more people to help, it's only getting worse.
So much talent on the roster and yet the team just looks lost.

That’s the problem, these guys are all new. I was ready last night to put CWM on a slow boat to China, and if they’re still playing at this level in February, UC may do it for me. But, I would love nothing more than to see this team gel and reach the NCAA. As I said last night, the last time I booed these guys was the Presbyterian game in 2011, but they made the Sweet 16 that year. Keeping hope alive.

[John P]

I have been slow to criticize the coach, until now.
Now, with his 5th different roster and more people to help, it's only getting worse.
So much talent on the roster and yet the team just looks lost.

[BearKatz]

Not even close to the same for me. I'm not moved by individual games. It's the pattern. Fifth year in the program, now in a major conference with one of the most talented rosters we've had in years. We can't put up a point per possession in three buy games? Embarrassing.

That Presbyterian loss was indeed in our sweet sixteen 2012 season. We struggled offensively to begin that season as well, failing to score a point per possession against Alabama St, Presbyterian, and Miami OH at home. But we were still hitting the offensive glass had a 6 seed the previous season with an offense ranked #53, the best under Cronin to that point. We were improving.

Three years ago with Landers Nolley bailing us out with an efficient iso game our offense was ranked #48. Two years ago our offense was #78. Last year #89. This year #173. We're going the wrong direction. Wes Miller still runs offense like it's 2010. We run a few ball screen actions with guards camped out on the wings. Hardly any flare screens, pin down screens, back door cuts, or even horns sets that are so common in today's game. We clog driving lanes with our big men and don't spread the defense with actions on the wings.

Did anyone see what Ryan Conwell said after the U of L game? He knew what we were running because we have run the same actions all four years he has played against us.
https://x.com/Knickoson42/status/1992057864974909825

Couldn't agree more, well said!

[sedz]

Looked at the advanced box score from the Presbyterian game. We took 26 midrange shots and only 10 free throws! 54 points. Some things never change here no matter who the coach is.

I would love to hire someone, anyone who understands modern basketball. We've got to stop acting like the style of play that brought us success 30 years ago is still going to work now.