Georgia 12/13 2:00 ESPNU

[zykarious]

We've seen the same lazy, ill prepared, unmotivated brand of bball regardless of who we bring in / recruit. Every PF or center he has brought in has either refused to play the typical post up style or he has no clue how to use them. IBut eventually they all gravitate to the perimeter to shoot the three. At the beginning of games we can keep up and generally play good enough to win unless we get in the habit of turning the ball over which we are prone to do, but after the half the same game plan continues on UC's side but the opponent makes their adjustments and it is then that UC reverts to shooting desperation shots and generally just gives up. It's been that way for the past five years, and its going to continue to be that way.

Wes is a loyal devotee of the two big men style and seems to love have "twin towers". To make that style work, one of the two (preferably both) need to be able to shoot the three. Otherwise teams just clog the lane and deny drives. Georgia wasn't even pretending to guard Thiam on the perimeter, they said go ahead and take a wide open three from the top of the key (shooters spot) we're going to have your man double the driver. They can drop off Baba, McKinley, Dzellat, Harris and even Abaev in a similar way.

This year was supposed to be the year we have shooters to spread the floor and create space for the drive. On paper Thiam, Baba and Abaev were supposed to be capable shooters, not great by any means, but guys you at least can't leave wide open. Instead, this is Wes's worst three point shooting team, only Day Day, Kriisa and Celestine demand any sort of attention on the perimeter. Why that is the case I don't know, is the coaching trying to improve guys shooting strokes in season and it's messing them up, is Cincinnati just cursed? Who knows.

What I do know is if a team can just clog the lane and ignore guys on the perimeter, it gets very difficult to drive the ball. And your team can't drive and can't shoot, the offense is going to look ugly more often than not. Seems like the same story as every year under Wes, in modern basketball you need to be able to shoot threes if you want good offense and we can't.

[Gmann]

For the first 10 minutes of the game you get a glimpse of what this team could be if they play hard and smart. The problem is the rarely play hard for very long and the smart part never seems to be there.

In the postgame you heard Wes express how angry and frustrated he was. Hoard commented afterward that while it doesn't fix anything fans at least want to hear that he's as frustrated and angry as they are. Previously we continued to hear how the team is going to be good at some point....NOT.

Assuming there will be no miracles, at this point, Miller is coaching for his next job which is likely another mid-major gig. That's all he's earned.By now he should realize that even though these guys are well compensated they are still kids and need to be coached accordingly. They are not going to play hard and well just because they like you. When UC hired Miller they got a good PR guy who could recruit a bit bring some energy and not embarass the university with his behavior. Unfortunately none of that matters if he can't win games against good teams. He can't so he is embarassing them in another way by being the doormat of the league and second place in the city.

[JBB]

This great program has been in the gutter since Mick left. Brannen and his non-sense, and now the last 4-5 years with a D3 coach. This program used to feared and that is what we fans and alumni have come to expect. The facts are clear CWM has to go unless the AD wants to continue this mediocrity.

[SKell82155]

he should've laid into Kerr, or he better be right now, it's ridiculous

Stop with the no looks & behind the back or grab some pine !

[leeraymond372@gmail.com]

Wes is a loyal devotee of the two big men style and seems to love have "twin towers". To make that style work, one of the two (preferably both) need to be able to shoot the three. Otherwise teams just clog the lane and deny drives. Georgia wasn't even pretending to guard Thiam on the perimeter, they said go ahead and take a wide open three from the top of the key (shooters spot) we're going to have your man double the driver. They can drop off Baba, McKinley, Dzellat, Harris and even Abaev in a similar way.

This year was supposed to be the year we have shooters to spread the floor and create space for the drive. On paper Thiam, Baba and Abaev were supposed to be capable shooters, not great by any means, but guys you at least can't leave wide open. Instead, this is Wes's worst three point shooting team, only Day Day, Kriisa and Celestine demand any sort of attention on the perimeter. Why that is the case I don't know, is the coaching trying to improve guys shooting strokes in season and it's messing them up, is Cincinnati just cursed? Who knows.

What I do know is if a team can just clog the lane and ignore guys on the perimeter, it gets very difficult to drive the ball. And your team can't drive and can't shoot, the offense is going to look ugly more often than not. Seems like the same story as every year under Wes, in modern basketball you need to be able to shoot threes if you want good offense and we can't.

Great comments. I am in agreement. Fast story. When I was a young man, I chased a girl that was not interested. An uncle told me; "don't force it". If UC does not have the players to shoot the three, why force all of the three-point shots when it does not work? I understand modern basketball, but I also understand what works and what does not work.

Coach K at Duke once said that he builds teams around the capabilities of his players. Miller, on the other hand, appears to try to get players that will fit inro his system (whatever that is). If players do not fit into a system, then other approaches must be attempted.

Miller likes the two big men lineup, but for some for reason he underutilizes his bigs. For instance, UC's starting bigs only get 33% of the shots. The starting guard group shoots only 36%, while the bigs shoot 55%. It goes back to understanding what is needed to win. The one thing that Miller dies not understand is how to win.

Very good comments.

[SKell82155]

Listening to the postgame - I sorta feel sorry for CWM --- of course regardless of how bad the play, he is the leader. He doesn't know what to do next.

Maybe find another line of work ?

[SKell82155]

Barring guys who are in the elite lottery pick range, most freshmen haven't made a major impact in the Big 12, even those in the same range (20ish) in recruiting rankings as Abaev. Way more expectation was put on Abaev by fans and Miller it seems than was justified by his ranking. He shouldn't be starting, but more importantly building a team that relies on him starting is a roster building error by Wes.

Was he forced into that once Jizzle had issues ?

[leeraymond372@gmail.com]

Georgia's coach, Mike White, made one adjustment that changed the outcome of the game in Georgia's favor; he doubled-team Baba Miller late in the 1st half. Georgia came back in the 2nd half and did the same thing. Miller really hurt the team with the technical foul early in the 2nd half that gave him 3 fouls. Once Miller went out of the game because of the third foul, Georgia went on a 10 to 3 run that doomed UC. UC could not catch up.

That one adjustment changed the outcome of the game. Coach Miller made no similar adjustments on Blue Cain. Cain went on to set a new personal record for scoring points. UC went on to lose the game.

Baba Miller scored 10 points in the 1st half. Guess how many points he scored in the 2nd half? One (1) at the free-throw line. That one adjustment by UG took Miller out of the game.

What a difference a coach makes.

[SKell82155]

Barring guys who are in the elite lottery pick range, most freshmen haven't made a major impact in the Big 12, even those in the same range (20ish) in recruiting rankings as Abaev. Way more expectation was put on Abaev by fans and Miller it seems than was justified by his ranking. He shouldn't be starting, but more importantly building a team that relies on him starting is a roster building error by Wes.

Was he forced into that once Jizzle had issues ?

[SKell82155]

Listening to the postgame - I sorta feel sorry for CWM --- of course regardless of how bad the play, he is the leader. He doesn't know what to do next.

Maybe find another line of work ?

[zykarious]

Great comments. I am in agreement. Fast story. When I was a young man, I chased a girl that was not interested. An uncle told me; "don't force it". If UC does not have the players to shoot the three, why force all of the three-point shots when it does not work? I understand modern basketball, but I also understand what works and what does not work.

Coach K at Duke once said that he builds teams around the capabilities of his players. Miller, on the other hand, appears to try to get players that will fit inro his system (whatever that is). If players do not fit into a system, then other approaches must be attempted.

Miller likes the two big men lineup, but for some for reason he underutilizes his bigs. For instance, UC's starting bigs only get 33% of the shots. The starting guard group shoots only 36%, while the bigs shoot 55%. It goes back to understanding what is needed to win. The one thing that Miller dies not understand is how to win.

Very good comments.

It's definitely criticism worthy of Miller's recruiting, he likes the twin towers style, but he doesn't recruit skilled interior scoring big men. Thiam might get there eventually, but he wasn't an interior scorer last year and isn't there yet. Thiam has struggled to get position and score against mid-majors (a number of TO's too), no reason to expect him to turn into what he's not.

Haynes might have been that guy, but even he was more known for his ability to face up and drive, not score back to the basket. Baba definitely isn't a back to the basket guy. McKinley might be the closest we have to an interior scorer, but he probably needs another year of development.

In short, Miller didn't recruit guys for their ability to post-up and score at the rim (and historically hasn't), so expecting them to become interior scorers is even more unlikely than expecting them to be able to do what they were recruited for (spread the floor, hit 3's at a reasonable percentage and open the floor for drives).

[sedz]

It's definitely criticism worthy of Miller's recruiting, he likes the twin towers style, but he doesn't recruit skilled interior scoring big men. Thiam might get there eventually, but he wasn't an interior scorer last year and isn't there yet. Thiam has struggled to get position and score against mid-majors (a number of TO's too), no reason to expect him to turn into what he's not.

Haynes might have been that guy, but even he was more known for his ability to face up and drive, not score back to the basket. Baba definitely isn't a back to the basket guy. McKinley might be the closest we have to an interior scorer, but he probably needs another year of development.

In short, Miller didn't recruit guys for their ability to post-up and score at the rim (and historically hasn't), so expecting them to become interior scorers is even more unlikely than expecting them to be able to do what they were recruited for (spread the floor, hit 3's at a reasonable percentage and open the floor for drives).

Back to the basket post scorers have almost disappeared from the modern game. It's because we've realized that any two point shot other than right at the rim is a bad shot. A post up usually results in a baby hook or turnaround over a defender. Even good post scorers convert under 50% of those shots. Gary Clark made under 40% on twos away from the rim. Yancy Gates made just 31%. Top 50 offenses convert over 55% effective field goals now. A 40% shot should not be the goal of any scheme.

The goal of the today's game is rim, free throw, or catch and shoot three. Moving bigs to the perimeter or high post opens the lane for drives/cuts and allows perimeter screens for shooters. Our problem is we don't have bigs set down or flare screens on the wings for shooters. Many of our threes are off the dribble and contested. We recruit small guards who can't get to the rim to either finish, draw fouls, or dump off to a big. Instead they settle for midrange looks. Or we have defense first guards who can't shoot at all. We recruit bigs who are not good passers, so we can't take advantage of the open lane when they have the ball up top. Or we don't teach them how to be a modern "point forward".

Look at what Arrinten Page is doing at Northwestern. He has a 20% assist rate this year, second highest on the team. With the Bearcats his assist rate was just 7%. His turnover rate has been cut in half because he's not dribbling in the post anymore. He's scoring much more efficiently (63% v 52% eFG) because 68% of his rim looks are assisted - at Cincinnati only 48% were assisted. His BPM has shot up from 1.2 to a sky high 11.5. Same player moved from a twenty year old scheme to a modern one.

You can win with two bigs, four guards, five wings, whatever. The most important thing is to run an offense that gives your best players efficient shots. We ask our players to create their own shots with only a ball screen for help. That's not going to work in today's game no matter who we bring in.

[Gypo O'Leary]

Back to the basket post scorers have almost disappeared from the modern game. It's because we've realized that any two point shot other than right at the rim is a bad shot. A post up usually results in a baby hook or turnaround over a defender. Even good post scorers convert under 50% of those shots. Gary Clark made under 40% on twos away from the rim. Yancy Gates made just 31%. Top 50 offenses convert over 55% effective field goals now. A 40% shot should not be the goal of any scheme.

The goal of the today's game is rim, free throw, or catch and shoot three. Moving bigs to the perimeter or high post opens the lane for drives/cuts and allows perimeter screens for shooters. Our problem is we don't have bigs set down or flare screens on the wings for shooters. Many of our threes are off the dribble and contested. We recruit small guards who can't get to the rim to either finish, draw fouls, or dump off to a big. Instead they settle for midrange looks. Or we have defense first guards who can't shoot at all. We recruit bigs who are not good passers, so we can't take advantage of the open lane when they have the ball up top. Or we don't teach them how to be a modern "point forward".

Look at what Arrinten Page is doing at Northwestern. He has a 20% assist rate this year, second highest on the team. With the Bearcats his assist rate was just 7%. His turnover rate has been cut in half because he's not dribbling in the post anymore. He's scoring much more efficiently (63% v 52% eFG) because 68% of his rim looks are assisted - at Cincinnati only 48% were assisted. His BPM has shot up from 1.2 to a sky high 11.5. Same player moved from a twenty year old scheme to a modern one.

You can win with two bigs, four guards, five wings, whatever. The most important thing is to run an offense that gives your best players efficient shots. We ask our players to create their own shots with only a ball screen for help. That's not going to work in today's game no matter who we bring in.

I agree with a lot of what you are saying. That kid on X beat us single-handedly by operating with the same little jump hook in the paint. First small guards are not going to cut it in the Big 12. This is a big boy league with 6'4+ guys who are potential NBA draft picks. Page was the one guy last year that I thought was completely underused. He actually was competent in the post. But you have to have guards who understand how to use a big man, and a big man that understands when to kick it back out. Page got such little time, I think he just felt like "I've got the rock, I"m shooting". Our big problem is we don't have any movement at all in our offense. Our offense bogs down, the guards try to go one on one. With Wes, I can't think of any of the big men moving, setting picks (except at the top of the key), kicking the ball back out. And when you have size you can get other teams in foul trouble...Wes can't do that against Eastern Michigan or Xavier....forget about it when Big 12 play starts. I feel like Day-Day and Jizzle would be a good guard combo in a lot of leagues, but in the Big 12 they simply are not in the top half of the league. This year, I thought we had enough depth and size to compete, but we (so far) look better on paper than we do on the court.

[sedz]

I agree with a lot of what you are saying. That kid on X beat us single-handedly by operating with the same little jump hook in the paint. First small guards are not going to cut it in the Big 12. This is a big boy league with 6'4+ guys who are potential NBA draft picks. Page was the one guy last year that I thought was completely underused. He actually was competent in the post. But you have to have guards who understand how to use a big man, and a big man that understands when to kick it back out. Page got such little time, I think he just felt like "I've got the rock, I"m shooting". Our big problem is we don't have any movement at all in our offense. Our offense bogs down, the guards try to go one on one. With Wes, I can't think of any of the big men moving, setting picks (except at the top of the key), kicking the ball back out. And when you have size you can get other teams in foul trouble...Wes can't do that against Eastern Michigan or Xavier....forget about it when Big 12 play starts. I feel like Day-Day and Jizzle would be a good guard combo in a lot of leagues, but in the Big 12 they simply are not in the top half of the league. This year, I thought we had enough depth and size to compete, but we (so far) look better on paper than we do on the court.

Yep! Agree with all of this.