Coach Kelly Situation

[mikep]

Mike, I doubt that this would be the reason. Kelly has been around quite a bit since that incident. Also, I don't think race will be a part of the discussion. Neither by ND or Stephen A. Smith. If Kelly were considered a racist - which he is not and I am considered an African American/Black, he would have already "signed" his coaching "death" as no players would play for him - African/White etc. He also would not have been hired here. Sometimes we make a statement out of context. If he would have stated what he did and left racial background out of it, no one would think anything of it because its probably true. We are a part of our environment regardless os ethnicity. A White person in a "bad" environment would more than likely be the same as anyone else in that environment.

Kelly has been at CMU and UC since(and the comments were a big deal at CMU), ND is a totally different game. Just like no one cared what church President Obama went to when he was a senator, it became a big deal when he ran for president. There is now a perception by many that ND is a raciest school. How many times have you seen on sports center Willingham’s numbers posted next to Weis's and Davie's before that? The insinuation is obvious, ND gave the white coaches longer. I heard a caller on the Steve Czaben show today saying "I bet ND does not even interview a black candidate" I would be shocked if ND in not hypersensitive to any appearance if racism in this process.

Does anyone know where Kelly's supposed pro-choice viewpoint was revealed? Or is that just a rumor someone started to make it sound less likely that he'll go to ND?

Wow I did not know about that

[jadam222]

Let's just say, for argument's sake, that salary is a huge issue. Then, let's say, for argument's sake, the university recognizes that having a perrenial BCS contender can be a tremendous boon for the University's finances, as it will potentially generate enough revenuse through football to allocate to all sorts of programs on campus.

In that case, wouldn't it make sense to DOUBLE Kelly's salary? Not trying to be incensitive to the university's other departments and overall needs. I mean you can basically pay the entire history department on an extra 1.4 mil, no? But all I am saying is that if big time football is supposed to have such a profound impact on the campus's overall viability, profile, and finaicial health, it might be worth it to give Kelly TWICE what he makes now. I mean if you factor in the idea that he LIKES being in Cinci, it might be enough to offset the 3 mil plus that ND will supposedly offer.
In any event, the university has been very forthright with Kelly and have accommodated him and his desires, to the overall benefit of the school. He should take that into consideration.
In the meantime, the idea of WINNING a secnd straight Big East title and subsequent BCS berth is more a reality right now than the idea of LOSING a coach. Let's focus on the more likely reality. It will be better for all of us.
Go CATS!!!!

Brooklyn, I am in total agreement with you. I say pay him the 3Mill. He pays for himself and then some. As for the professors, we all value education. This money will not come out of the coffers but maybe initially from some boosters - who already also give to the educational side more than likely. Once the facilities are in place, the revenue should pay Kelly and his staff "fair" market value regardless of conference - meaning pay SEC, BIG10, Big12, Pac10 money.

I saw on the news UC professors objecting to the Jefferson complex and I am thinking to myself "how idiotic?" That money was raised FOR athletics. The fact that the athletic department was borrowing money to get started has nothing to do with it as the money is already raised by donors for the purpose of the facilities not a new chemistry lab. Most of the spending UC has made over the years - that got us in debt - was made to the educational infrastructure. I think if you are a professor that can bring millions of dollars to the university - for others to use as well - then you should get paid more. Unfortunately, that is not the case and market demand is market demand.

Mike Thomas needs to quit messing around and pay the man not based on what other Big East schools are doing but pay him based on worth. Right now, Kelley should be able to fetch 2.5 - 3Mill. I know its not that simple but we need to get it done. That is why some consider this school a "stepping stone." You pay 3Mill and all of a sudden you are legit. Again, eventually he will offset that money and then some. Probably already does when you consider the marketing that has taken place based on our success. It does not hurt to have our name mentioned and campus shown nationally. Everyone wants a winner and that includes potential students. It does wonders for campus life and admissions - not to mention marketing revenue. So, to UC I say seize the moment while you can. Quit offering those little increases in money and "step up" and pay Kelly. I doubt very seriously he leaves if he is making 3Mill now with the potential for more later once the facilities are in place. Add some more incentives to it - Big East Champs, BCS win, National Champs - that can earn him more on top of that and he is not leaving - especially if we continue the upgrades of the facility. Its an investment.

[Antonio]

I think that ND would be more concerned by rumors that he's pro-choice than any supposed racist comments that were made over a decade ago. The racist claims clearly hold no merit or else he would not be where he is today.

Does anyone know where Kelly's supposed pro-choice viewpoint was revealed? Or is that just a rumor someone started to make it sound less likely that he'll go to ND?

The fact that the microscope is even this pinpoint at ND illustrates why it's not the dream job so many would believe it to be.

I believe BK campaigned a little for John Kerry at some point (maybe in a Senate run) which has led those who are fixated on the abortion issue to assume it means BK is pro-choice himself since JK is.

There are tons of rumors I've heard as to why ND is not interested in BK. And actually I've heard all of them from the ND side. The Central Michigan stuff has come up. There are also supposedly some incidents from harder partying times in BK's past at GVS, to which I won't lend specifics because I have zero evidence as to their credence.

Long story short, because of ND's own missteps (O'Leary, Willingham, the flap over President Obama) they aren't in a position to end up with a questionable hire, and the rumors are there are reasons to question BK. Some of these things, like the CMU incident, are easily understood and explained away by anyone with who is patient. But that adjective does not describe the national media or the ND fan base, especially the people who would be quick to criticize ND without investigating.

If you believe some of the chatter, BK was ruled out by ND a while back. It stands to reason ND knew they were going to fire CW for few weeks, there's no way the AD and the boosters haven't been going over potential candidates while CW's body was still warm. It's possible that ND already ruled out BK, and BK hasn't flatly denied the ND rumors bc 1) they haven't contacted him yet and he would be interested if they were, and 2) he wants to use a perceived interest as leverage for a new deal with UC.

My personal fear is ND ruled out BK early on because of certain concerns, but will come back to him when they are spurned by Stoops, Meyer, Billick, et al. They may not have wanted a left-leaning Catholic who has perceived skeletons, but they might settle for one if they have no choice.

[catscratchfever]

The fact that the microscope is even this pinpoint at ND illustrates why it's not the dream job so many would believe it to be.

I believe BK campaigned a little for John Kerry at some point (maybe in a Senate run) which has led those who are fixated on the abortion issue to assume it means BK is pro-choice himself since JK is.

There are tons of rumors I've heard as to why ND is not interested in BK. And actually I've heard all of them from the ND side. The Central Michigan stuff has come up. There are also supposedly some incidents from harder partying times in BK's past at GVS, to which I won't lend specifics because I have zero evidence as to their credence.

Long story short, because of ND's own missteps (O'Leary, Willingham, the flap over President Obama) they aren't in a position to end up with a questionable hire, and the rumors are there are reasons to question BK. Some of these things, like the CMU incident, are easily understood and explained away by anyone with who is patient. But that adjective does not describe the national media or the ND fan base, especially the people who would be quick to criticize ND without investigating.

If you believe some of the chatter, BK was ruled out by ND a while back. It stands to reason ND knew they were going to fire CW for few weeks, there's no way the AD and the boosters haven't been going over potential candidates while CW's body was still warm. It's possible that ND already ruled out BK, and BK hasn't flatly denied the ND rumors bc 1) they haven't contacted him yet and he would be interested if they were, and 2) he wants to use a perceived interest as leverage for a new deal with UC.

My personal fear is ND ruled out BK early on because of certain concerns, but will come back to him when they are spurned by Stoops, Meyer, Billick, et al. They may not have wanted a left-leaning Catholic who has perceived skeletons, but they might settle for one if they have no choice.

To the letter, this is exactly what I have heard.

[c_b_stamm]

They may not have wanted a left-leaning Catholic who has perceived skeletons, but they might settle for one if they have no choice.

People keep bring up the pro-choice thing, but I am not certain why Kelly being a left-leaning Catholic would be an issue. It appears to me that ND is a left-leaning Catholic university, so there does not appear to be a disconnect.

[youngandrestless]

Latest from footballcoachscoop.com

Notre Dame:
Sources tell us that Athletic Director Jack Swarbrick has turned his focus towards Stanford Head Football Coach Jim Harbaugh.

[jadam222]

Kelly has been at CMU and UC since(and the comments were a big deal at CMU), ND is a totally different game. Just like no one cared what church President Obama went to when he was a senator, it became a big deal when he ran for president. There is now a perception by many that ND is a raciest school. How many times have you seen on sports center Willingham’s numbers posted next to Weis's and Davie's before that? The insinuation is obvious, ND gave the white coaches longer. I heard a caller on the Steve Czaben show today saying "I bet ND does not even interview a black candidate" I would be shocked if ND in not hypersensitive to any appearance if racism in this process.


Wow I did not know about that

Mike, I don't totally disagree with your comment. To be honest, I think Willingham did not get treated fairly. Why? I don't know. That is for those who made the decision to answer. I do know that Weiss won with Willigham players - in other words, would Willingham have begun to win once he got his players and system in place? Before we judge him at Washington remember why ND hired him in the first place - what he did at Stanford considered another high academic institution. Once those players left he (Weiss) has not won - even with his recruits. They forever blamed Willingham even when he was long gone. Did Willingham get the same by blaming Davies? No. Right now, there is probably not a prominent minority coach in a program ready to take on the role. So, I don't look at it that way. The hope is that minority coaches will still get a fair opportunity in some other programs that will prepare them for the task. No one can argue with some of the coaching names that have been mentioned. Those coaches have already produced in their respective programs. ND and some of the other "legacy" schools are not a place to "get your feet wet." They better hire someone who is already at the head coach level and have a record of achieving. I would not go for a coordinator on any level.

[Rational Cat]

People keep bring up the pro-choice thing, but I am not certain why Kelly being a left-leaning Catholic would be an issue. It appears to me that ND is a left-leaning Catholic university, so there does not appear to be a disconnect.

Absolutely.

I have a kid at ND now, and the place is filled with pro-choice Catholics. We suspect Fr. Jenkins is also pro-choice, to be honest.

If they have no interest in BK (and thank God for that!) it is likely due to the CMU incident mentioned above, or the fact that they are looking for a defensive minded coach.

I'm quite sure his reproductive politics have nothing to do with it.

[Lurker]

Mike, I don't totally disagree with your comment. To be honest, I think Willingham did not get treated fairly. Why? I don't know. That is for those who made the decision to answer.

This isn't hard people.

ND wants to win football games. They just fired a white alum and paid him 18 million dollars because he wasn't winning enough football games.

The same "racists" at ND that fired Willingham also hired him.

Their decision to fire him didn't occur because one day they woke up and realized that Willingham was black. They fired him because they correctly concluded that the man was a horrific football coach who also couldn't recruit to save his life.

And if you doubt that Willingham was anything but a horrible coach look at his post-ND career. At Washington he compiled a 11-37 record including a spectacular 0-12 season in 2008. Washington fired Willingham after 4 seasons and the majority of their fans thought that was 2 years too late.

The ND administration seemingly knows that they need to get this hire right and if they conclude that Brian Kelly is the best guy to turn their program around he'll be offered the job and the fact that he's liberal/pro-choice won't be an issue at all. Heck, half of the profs at ND are probably liberals who are pro-choice and ND hired them.

I also doubt the CMU affair will dissuade them from hiring himbecause it's a real stretch to imply he's racist off that statement. Someone in the media will undoubtedly bring it up but Kelly probably already has a canned answer to knock that issue down.

[catscratchfever]

If it's true that ND wants a defensive minded coach and that Kelly is "begging" for the job, any chance our D actually shows up this week against PITT and puts together an impressive performance that could cause them to lose their coach???? Do we root for a 49-45 UC win????

[jadam222]

This isn't hard people.

ND wants to win football games. They just fired a white alum and paid him 18 million dollars because he wasn't winning enough football games.

The same "racists" at ND that fired Willingham also hired him.

Their decision to fire him didn't occur because one day they woke up and realized that Willingham was black. They fired him because they correctly concluded that the man was a horrific football coach who also couldn't recruit to save his life.

And if you doubt that Willingham was anything but a horrible coach after he was fired from ND he went to Washington where he proceeded to compile an 11-37 record including a spectacular 0-12 season in 2008.

The ND administration seemingly knows that they need to get this hire right and if they conclude that Brian Kelly is the best guy to turn their program around he'll be offered the job and the fact that he's liberal/pro-choice won't be an issue at all. Heck, half of the profs at ND are probably liberals who are pro-choice and ND hired them.

I also doubt the CMU affair will dissuade them from hiring himbecause it's a real stretch to imply he's racist off that statement. Someone in the media will undoubtedly bring it up but Kelly probably already has a canned answer to knock that issue down.

Lurker, just be careful when you quote. If you read some of my posts you would understand that I did NOT say ND was a racists institution. In fact, I even defended the fact that in this case there may not be a minority coach that is ready to take on this task. Also, maybe what you say is true - they recognized they made a bad hire. The issue that some bring up is that they allowed Davies 5 years before firing and Weiss 5 years as well. They held Willingham to a "higher" standard and fired him sooner. In the end, none of them got the job done but they did allow others the opportunity to "right" the ship. Maybe Tyrone did not have the people skills to buy him time. To your point, he would not have been there in the first place if they had an issue with race. In fact, I think they welcomed it - being able to hire a coach that appeared qualified and was a minority. He was successful at first - proves he can coach - but maybe he needed better recruiters around him. Regardless, he got a chance and really that is all you can ask. It was pretty obvious to me a couple years ago that Charlie would not get it done. I think his contract is what kept him around longer not his race. He would have been fired too. The issue with ND is that maybe they are "pulling" the trigger too soon. Sometimes it takes longer to get established again. Now, they have to start all over again with a new system which will delay things again.

[udonkey]

Do we root for a 49-45 UC win????

No way...I realize you're kidding, but so many reasons why not to hope this happens:

- Our (fans) hearts haven't been tested this year...we don't need people dying in Pittsburgh

- We'll be greatly outnumbered at Heinz field...a UC blowout will send their fans home earlier and we can celebrate

- Due to the above, less traffic to leave, and less Pitt fans in the bars when we go out and turn Pittsburgh and Cincinnati in pro-Nebraska towns.

- A shootout will prevent me from unveiling my banner as early as possible (pics to be posted after the game)

[cincycpaw]

No way...I realize you're kidding, but so many reasons why not to hope this happens:

- Our (fans) hearts haven't been tested this year...we don't need people dying in Pittsburgh

- We'll be greatly outnumbered at Heinz field...a UC blowout will send their fans home earlier and we can celebrate

- Due to the above, less traffic to leave, and less Pitt fans in the bars when we go out and turn Pittsburgh and Cincinnati in pro-Nebraska towns.

- A shootout will prevent me from unveiling my banner as early as possible (pics to be posted after the game)

While all of that sounds great...I'll take a W anyway the Bearcats can get it.

[waterhead]

Brooklyn, I am in total agreement with you. I say pay him the 3Mill. He pays for himself and then some. As for the professors, we all value education. This money will not come out of the coffers but maybe initially from some boosters - who already also give to the educational side more than likely. Once the facilities are in place, the revenue should pay Kelly and his staff "fair" market value regardless of conference - meaning pay SEC, BIG10, Big12, Pac10 money.

I saw on the news UC professors objecting to the Jefferson complex and I am thinking to myself "how idiotic?" That money was raised FOR athletics. The fact that the athletic department was borrowing money to get started has nothing to do with it as the money is already raised by donors for the purpose of the facilities not a new chemistry lab. Most of the spending UC has made over the years - that got us in debt - was made to the educational infrastructure. I think if you are a professor that can bring millions of dollars to the university - for others to use as well - then you should get paid more. Unfortunately, that is not the case and market demand is market demand.

Mike Thomas needs to quit messing around and pay the man not based on what other Big East schools are doing but pay him based on worth. Right now, Kelley should be able to fetch 2.5 - 3Mill. I know its not that simple but we need to get it done. That is why some consider this school a "stepping stone." You pay 3Mill and all of a sudden you are legit. Again, eventually he will offset that money and then some. Probably already does when you consider the marketing that has taken place based on our success. It does not hurt to have our name mentioned and campus shown nationally. Everyone wants a winner and that includes potential students. It does wonders for campus life and admissions - not to mention marketing revenue. So, to UC I say seize the moment while you can. Quit offering those little increases in money and "step up" and pay Kelly. I doubt very seriously he leaves if he is making 3Mill now with the potential for more later once the facilities are in place. Add some more incentives to it - Big East Champs, BCS win, National Champs - that can earn him more on top of that and he is not leaving - especially if we continue the upgrades of the facility. Its an investment.

Someone else made an analogy to Obama when he was senator and President and I think it was a good analogy to get the point across. I think this one is too. However, I do think it's ironic that spending money to make money is the overriding message here. An investment. I think it's obviously a good idea if you can see the forrest through the trees. I would find it hard to believe if he hasn't been worth more than his salary already.

Ironically Obama is getting criticized for the same concept. Obviously it has to be a wise investment to work...and I guess that's the issue. I think Kelly is a wise investment for the university. We will have to wait and see with Obama but I get the reasoning behind some of the spending.

Politics...arghh!! But unfortunately they are included in NCAA sports as well on every level from BCS commissions on down.

[waterhead]

I think that ND would be more concerned by rumors that he's pro-choice than any supposed racist comments that were made over a decade ago. The racist claims clearly hold no merit or else he would not be where he is today.

Does anyone know where Kelly's supposed pro-choice viewpoint was revealed? Or is that just a rumor someone started to make it sound less likely that he'll go to ND?

If ND is going to this extent I would think they could find something wrong with every person on the planet...including themselves. Not that pro-choice is wrong.

I hope they continue down this path, if it's true, as it will keep them from being a monopoly powerhouse. Recruiting restrictions and religious value judgements on sports employees.