Outgoing Portal

[swilsonsp4]

Here is some wild thinking. In this day of unlimited transfers, have him go to a school such as Cincy State. He might could start there and get plenty of practice. If he excels, he can return. This is a whole new age in college ball and I am sure this will become a normal way.

While in rare cases D1 players drop down to junior college level, if that was an option for Sage, it won't be at Cincinnati State. They "suspended" all intercollegiate athletics, except soccer, in 2017 for budgetary reasons. All of the coaches were terminated. There is no indication that athletics will return.

That said, I believe that the handwriting was on the wall for Sage when CWM brought in two bigs via the portal. Tolentino had already sat out one season and now essentially two, although he doesn't qualify for a second red shirt. Whether he has local ties or not, I expect him to enter the portal and end up at a MAC or equivalent school.

[leo from jersey]

While in rare cases D1 players drop down to junior college level, if that was an option for Sage, it won't be at Cincinnati State. They "suspended" all intercollegiate athletics, except soccer, in 2017 for budgetary reasons. All of the coaches were terminated. There is no indication that athletics will return.

That said, I believe that the handwriting was on the wall for Sage when CWM brought in two bigs via the portal. Tolentino had already sat out one season and now essentially two, although he doesn't qualify for a second red shirt. Whether he has local ties or not, I expect him to enter the portal and end up at a MAC or equivalent school.

Groovy - sorry about Cincy state - don't get a lot of their news in Jersey. Didn't John Williamson come from there? I think that is best a MAC school, but it is hard to "cut" a local especially with the HS coaches.

[Rufus]

Sage is local only one year if I remember correctly. Did he not grow up in Hawaii and transferred here for his senior year of high school. I apologize if I am incorrectly recalling this.

[leeraymond]

Karaban is a stretch 4, he doesn't rebound, block shots, or score back to the basket in the post like a traditional big. Purdue plays 4 guards. Pringle is the only traditional big on Alabama, the others are 6'10" but athletic and play more like wings. NC St is the only team that plays a traditional two big lineup.

But look at how good the final four traditional big men are. None of them are one dimensional. Clingan and Edey dominate at both ends. Alabama's guys can all create their own shot. Burns is one of the best creators in the game as a post player. The problem is big men like that are rare in college basketball. If you can find one, of course pick him up. But running bigs out there just because they are big is not a great recipe. That's my argument. We don't HAVE to roster big men. We need guys who can score and defend. There are a lot of players like that under 6'9", and I would much rather have four of them on the court than a one dimensional big.

Purdue starts two traditional big men, Edey and Kaufman-Renn (6'9" power forward). He very seldom will take a three, but he is NOT a three-point shooter. His game is on the inside. Alabama starts two big men, Pringle and Grant Nelson (6'11"). Nelson can step out and shoot the three but he shoots just 27% from 3 and has only taken 106 threes on the season. Most of his scoring comes from the paint and inside the arc. You make it appear that Karaban does NOT do anything but play offense. Karaban is the 3rd best rebounder on the team with 4.9 rebounds a game and is the 3rd best shot-blocker on the team with 29 block shots on the season. So although he takes about 55% of his shots from three, he still can play a power game. He is a 4 that can shoot the three. Karaban perhaps is the least traditional of all the bigs in the Final Four.

All the teams in the Final Four have good size in the paint. That is my point. Even at the NBA level, I have only seen two smaller teams make the NBA Finals in the last ten years or so, Golden State and the COVID year Miami Heat (that was a very good defensive team). However, the Lakers with their size beat Miami that year. By the way, Davis can score inside and from three, but according to some basketball analysts, his best work comes on the defensive side in the paint. I got to run. I have a meeting to get to.

[sedz]

Kaufman-Renn might start but he is not in their main 5 man unit. Against Tennessee he played 15 minutes and took only one shot with zero assists, zero steals or blocks, and only one rebound. He's not a key piece. For most of the game, including high leverage situations, Purdue plays 4 guards.

Nelson is quick and athletic like a wing. His interior scoring largely comes from driving the ball, not back to the basket post play. He can defend the perimeter. If we can find 6'11" guys like that, great. If Kevin Durant shows up in the portal, sign him. That's not the distinction I'm making. I'm talking about traditional big men who can't play on the perimeter. We had four of them on the roster this year and I don't think we need more than two and can get by with only one.

Karaban, as you point out, is also not a traditional big. He's a stretch 4 who can defend multiple positions. He's the kind of guy I'm talking about that I'd like to bring in. I'd say his game is closer to a wing than a center. Being third on the team in blocked shots isn't saying much when you're one of only 3 players who averages over 27 minutes. His block rate is 2.6, that's one of every 38 twos he faces, same as Skillings. His rebounding rates are lower than Newman. He doesn't have any more of a power game than Dan does, and that's my point. We're better off with guys like that than just going for size.

Nelson is a good example to focus on. He's 6'11" with all-around skills. If we have to choose between his size or his skillset, which is more important? I'm willing to give up 4 inches to find a guy with the same skillset rather than NBA size but limited skills. We have had slow, one dimensional big men here since 2018. You don't see winning teams feature that either in college or the NBA.

[Lobot]

Sage is local only one year if I remember correctly. Did he not grow up in Hawaii and transferred here for his senior year of high school. I apologize if I am incorrectly recalling this.

You are close if not completely correct.

[sedz]

Sage is local only one year if I remember correctly. Did he not grow up in Hawaii and transferred here for his senior year of high school. I apologize if I am incorrectly recalling this.

He wasn't really a local hero in his one year either. Hamilton was 6-17 that year, and only 1-13 in the games Sage played. I don't think any goodwill among local coaches is at stake.

[GoBearcats31]

This thread is getting kind of out of control.

As it stands, zero players from UC have officially entered the portal -- though there is an expectation some will (and, in 2024, it would be pretty much a guarantee).

In this NIL landscape, literally anyone with eligibility returning could hit portal - even the leading scorer for a team. Yet, being objective about it, the most likely candidates would of course be the guys who played the least and/or saw a diminishing role down the stretch:

- Sage Tolentino played 10 mins in 5 games the entire season
- Josh Reed averaged 10.9 minutes per game
- Jamille Reynolds averaged 14.3 minutes per game and was the clear backup '5' here in his fourth season of college ball
- Viktor Lakhin averaged 21.6 minutes per game, but saw his role decrease significantly the second half of the season including several healthy scratches

The current rumor is that there could be three soon hitting the portal, and most likely those three would come from the above group of four. It would seem that if CJ Fredrick was not on the roster next season it would be from him moving on from college hoops, rather than transferring to a fourth school in his last year of eligibility.

[Oldtimer_UC_fan]

Groovy - sorry about Cincy state - don't get a lot of their news in Jersey. Didn't John Williamson come from there? I think that is best a MAC school, but it is hard to "cut" a local especially with the HS coaches.

It's better to cut them and allow them to have productive careers than for them to sit for 4 or 5 years. Of course, their education is a factor too.

[leo from jersey]

It's better to cut them and allow them to have productive careers than for them to sit for 4 or 5 years. Of course, their education is a factor too.

I agree but with locals there can be politics. I wonder if he will ever have the strength to play in the Big 12. Schools like Wilmington and other OAC schools - good education and a chance to play.

[Oldtimer_UC_fan]

I agree but with locals there can be politics. I wonder if he will ever have the strength to play in the Big 12. Schools like Wilmington and other OAC schools - good education and a chance to play.

I think it's a worse image for locals if he's recruited and doesn't play. Just my opinion.

[leo from jersey]

I think it's a worse image for locals if he's recruited and doesn't play. Just my opinion.

Lots of politics in this whole thing I would imagine. From the recruitment on down to today I suspect. We don't know if he will leave and if he does, I wish him all the success wherever he goes.

[Lobot]

This thread is getting kind of out of control.

As it stands, zero players from UC have officially entered the portal -- though there is an expectation some will (and, in 2024, it would be pretty much a guarantee).


........<snip>

The current rumor is that there could be three soon hitting the portal, and most likely those three would come from the above group of four. It would seem that if CJ Fredrick was not on the roster next season it would be from him moving on from college hoops, rather than transferring to a fourth school in his last year of eligibility.

Came here to day this:

Keep this thread contained to UC players headed out.

For possible incoming players use the portal thread in Basketball Recruiting please.

For NCAA team roster discussion, use the NCAA Tournament thread.


Violators will be shunned and get a boot to the head..... -MGMT

[Oldtimer_UC_fan]

Lots of politics in this whole thing I would imagine. From the recruitment on down to today I suspect. We don't know if he will leave and if he does, I wish him all the success wherever he goes.

Absolutely. Me too.

[leeraymond]

Kaufman-Renn might start but he is not in their main 5 man unit. Against Tennessee he played 15 minutes and took only one shot with zero assists, zero steals or blocks, and only one rebound. He's not a key piece. For most of the game, including high leverage situations, Purdue plays 4 guards.

Nelson is quick and athletic like a wing. His interior scoring largely comes from driving the ball, not back to the basket post play. He can defend the perimeter. If we can find 6'11" guys like that, great. If Kevin Durant shows up in the portal, sign him. That's not the distinction I'm making. I'm talking about traditional big men who can't play on the perimeter. We had four of them on the roster this year and I don't think we need more than two and can get by with only one.

Karaban, as you point out, is also not a traditional big. He's a stretch 4 who can defend multiple positions. He's the kind of guy I'm talking about that I'd like to bring in. I'd say his game is closer to a wing than a center. Being third on the team in blocked shots isn't saying much when you're one of only 3 players who averages over 27 minutes. His block rate is 2.6, that's one of every 38 twos he faces, same as Skillings. His rebounding rates are lower than Newman. He doesn't have any more of a power game than Dan does, and that's my point. We're better off with guys like that than just going for size.

Nelson is a good example to focus on. He's 6'11" with all-around skills. If we have to choose between his size or his skillset, which is more important? I'm willing to give up 4 inches to find a guy with the same skillset rather than NBA size but limited skills. We have had slow, one dimensional big men here since 2018. You don't see winning teams feature that either in college or the NBA.

For Purdue, that 6th man, if you will, is Gillis (6'6" forward). He plays about four minutes more a game than Kaufman-Renn. However, they both score about 6 or 7 points a game. Kaufman-Renn gets more rebounds and blocked shots a game. Gillis is a better assist man. Regardless, Kaufman-Renn is the starter. I am sure that he starts for a reason. DJ Burns is semi-one-dimensional. He is a pretty good scorer, but only does about 4.1 rebounds a game and only has 23 blocks on the season. Now he does account for 2.8 assists a game; largely because he is smart and quick enough to pass out of double-teams. However, NC St. is winning with his semi-one-dimensional play. Also, let's not forget about the other semi-one-dimensional big man that NC St. has, Diarra. He is the unsong hero of their team. He only scores about 6.5 points / game, but he rebounds (7.9 / game) and he has 40 blocked shots on the season. By the way, Diarra is 6'10".

Nelson is not that quick. I have seen him play a few times and I do not remember him taking anyone off the dribble. He takes a lot of jump shots. However, he is a good shooter, a pretty good rebounder, and plays decent defense. Look, it is not by accident that these teams are in the Final Four. Their big men are a VERY important part of what they do to win. I like teams with serviceable big men. All of them have very good size except for Karaban.