Game 29: UCF 2/23 ESPNU 9:00

[longtimefan]

[QUOTE=Lobot;n389545]Well, this is interesting. I think what we have here is a lack of quality practice time leading to lots of other stuff ($)

https://theathletic.com/3147392/2022...pointing-loss/[/QUOT]

One note: the rebuild actually begins next season. This year was a throwaway, with players who don’t belong at this level.

[Fox19bearcatbounce]

[QUOTE=longtimefan;n389548]

Well, this is interesting. I think what we have here is a lack of quality practice time leading to lots of other stuff ($)

https://theathletic.com/3147392/2022...pointing-loss/[/QUOT]

One note: the rebuild actually begins next season. This year was a throwaway, with players who don’t belong at this level.

There are more than a few players who are not necessarily high division one, whether it be size, athleticism and or ability. While we know to temper expectations, I also assumed that the little things they dont do would get fixed such as boxing out and taking more quality shots. The argument is it's his first year and it's a throw away year. To me whether your making the tournament or not and are building culture you have t o instill toughness and willingness to do the dirty work. I have not seen anything at all other than dd play that is a positive. I truly believe that miller could have these guys doing little things like boxing out and taking good shots, ball movement. I also read that cronins first year was abysmal and it was but if u think miller got division 1 left overs, croning got juco leftovers. The biggest difference was cronins team developed toughness and attempted to box out and take good shots , unfortunately they were no where near as big or talented as this team is. I seen where croning was going, u could sense they were going to be tough guys who did little things to muster enough points to win. I dont see Miller's plan, he might have one but I dont see anything other than selfishness and allowing the guys to do what they want without putting the effort I on the little things like boxing out. We see, I truly hope he has the chops to make some of these guys realize they are not going to do well in this higher division of basketball but will he is the question?

[Jeff Burk]

[QUOTE=Fox19bearcatbounce;n389549]

There are more than a few players who are not necessarily high division one, whether it be size, athleticism and or ability. While we know to temper expectations, I also assumed that the little things they dont do would get fixed such as boxing out and taking more quality shots. The argument is it's his first year and it's a throw away year. To me whether your making the tournament or not and are building culture you have t o instill toughness and willingness to do the dirty work. I have not seen anything at all other than dd play that is a positive. I truly believe that miller could have these guys doing little things like boxing out and taking good shots, ball movement. I also read that cronins first year was abysmal and it was but if u think miller got division 1 left overs, croning got juco leftovers. The biggest difference was cronins team developed toughness and attempted to box out and take good shots , unfortunately they were no where near as big or talented as this team is. I seen where croning was going, u could sense they were going to be tough guys who did little things to muster enough points to win. I dont see Miller's plan, he might have one but I dont see anything other than selfishness and allowing the guys to do what they want without putting the effort I on the little things like boxing out. We see, I truly hope he has the chops to make some of these guys realize they are not going to do well in this higher division of basketball but will he is the question?

I have been trying to defend CWM but I totally agree that there are many areas that are coachable. For example, you cannot coach effort such as hustling down the floor for defense. rebounding and overall tenacity, but you CAN coach FUNDAMENTALS which I feel we are lacking and this is all about Coaching.

[leo from jersey]

[QUOTE=Jeff Burk;n389550]

I have been trying to defend CWM but I totally agree that there are many areas that are coachable. For example, you cannot coach effort such as hustling down the floor for defense. rebounding and overall tenacity, but you CAN coach FUNDAMENTALS which I feel we are lacking and this is all about Coaching.

I think that you can coach hustle. There are many ways to get the attention, but these players got rid of a coach and perhaps some are afraid of them. If they are to go portal why worry. If you say just wait to next year, that is quitting and it is hard to recover. -- It may be a slow rebuild, but quitting won't speed it up.. I can't believe all these guys who claimed to have played and now quitting even for what is left.


https://cdn.quotesgram.com/img/93/58/480648833-michael-jordan-never-quit.jpg

[leeraymond]

There is an article that now appears in The Athletic that discusses the lack of quality practice time for UC basketball. For the members that do not have access to The Athletic, can someone that has read that article please be kind enough to explain what the article is all about? Thanks.

[Lobot]

There is an article that now appears in The Athletic that discusses the lack of quality practice time for UC basketball. For the members that do not have access to The Athletic, can someone that has read that article please be kind enough to explain what the article is all about? Thanks.

I wanted to paraphrase it for you but they article doesn't really say why they haven't had enough practice time. It simply states that they haven't. If I had to bet I'd say it was because of the rescheduled Memphis game and the weather. At one point we were playing 3 games in 6 days and I think we're doing that again starting this weekend because Houston got rescheduled. Hopefully they've been able to get some practice in after returning from Orlando.

I think Saturday is our last chance to secure a win going into the AAC Tourney. They won't get much practice after that with road trips to Houston and SMU back to back.

[John P]

Personally, I don't think the problems this team is having has anything to do with a lack of practice.
Basic skills, toughness and valuing the ball are traits that need to be ingrained long before players ever reach the college level. I've never seen bigs gets stripped of the ball so often and so easily as I have on this group. I can't see that it's any 1 or 2 players causing all the problems but just an overall lack of hustle from everyone. The only time it seems these guys ever attempt to put in any effort is when they are down 12-15 points (usually in the 1st 10 minutes of the game) but by then it's too late and they can't pull themselves out of the hole.
My only complaint with CWM is taking the blame for the poor performance, it's not helping the players. I'm hoping that in the locker room he calls out the bad plays to the players.

[Gmann]

Personally, I don't think the problems this team is having has anything to do with a lack of practice.
Basic skills, toughness and valuing the ball are traits that need to be ingrained long before players ever reach the college level. I've never seen bigs gets stripped of the ball so often and so easily as I have on this group. I can't see that it's any 1 or 2 players causing all the problems but just an overall lack of hustle from everyone. The only time it seems these guys ever attempt to put in any effort is when they are down 12-15 points (usually in the 1st 10 minutes of the game) but by then it's too late and they can't pull themselves out of the hole.
My only complaint with CWM is taking the blame for the poor performance, it's not helping the players. I'm hoping that in the locker room he calls out the bad plays to the players.

Totally agree.A month ago CWM was happy with the Memphis cancellation because they would have more practice time. It seems whether they have more or less time at practice the same fundamental issues remain. I can take losing games if I feel they are hustling and exercising sound fundamentals.

[longtimefan]

It’s easier to ingrain the right traits into guys when you bring them in as Freshman, then you create a culture that transfer guys are willing to buy into. We have guys who played 2-4 years elsewhere and never played for CWM before. When you bring guys like that in you also bring in whatever habits and culture they came from. I still say as we bring in the right guys things will turn around.

[BorisTheCat]

Longtime... totally agree... I guess the question is.... does that mean we are gonna have to wait until the entire roster turns over to see any REAL change ? Which guys on the current roster can be improved to the level needed to compete at this level ? Which guys have too low of a ceiling ? Then the ultimate question... Is CWM someone willing to "push someone out" if he has the chance to upgrade the roster via the portal or JC ? If yes... you turn it over a lot faster.

[Fox19bearcatbounce]

Longtime... totally agree... I guess the question is.... does that mean we are gonna have to wait until the entire roster turns over to see any REAL change ? Which guys on the current roster can be improved to the level needed to compete at this level ? Which guys have too low of a ceiling ? Then the ultimate question... Is CWM someone willing to "push someone out" if he has the chance to upgrade the roster via the portal or JC ? If yes... you turn it over a lot faster.

Regardless if guys are not scoring if you cant get them to box out, then they have to go regardless. That's something that is taught in grade school. Unfortunately I see maybe one player transferring out and that's either madsen or mcginnis. He isnt going to push guys out to get better talent. If these guys are just not good enough, mentally weak or font listen then get them out asap. I dont necessarily believe they are playing like crap because of not enough practice, they have plenty of upper class men and are deep enough into season to know to share basketball and rebound. Unless he gets an extra scholarship or two and or the freshman are just ready to contribute immediately I dont see much hope for next season not to turn out like this one. But here's hoping they get a big who can rebound and skilli is or reed can give uc 5 to 7 pts a piece and defend and give some boards also.

[leo from jersey]

Regardless if guys are not scoring if you cant get them to box out, then they have to go regardless. That's something that is taught in grade school. Unfortunately I see maybe one player transferring out and that's either madsen or mcginnis. He isnt going to push guys out to get better talent. If these guys are just not good enough, mentally weak or font listen then get them out asap. I dont necessarily believe they are playing like crap because of not enough practice, they have plenty of upper class men and are deep enough into season to know to share basketball and rebound. Unless he gets an extra scholarship or two and or the freshman are just ready to contribute immediately I dont see much hope for next season not to turn out like this one. But here's hoping they get a big who can rebound and skilli is or reed can give uc 5 to 7 pts a piece and defend and give some boards also.

agreed box out is taught in grade school. MM dad was a coach. The other night I saw him have position but a player pushed him out got the rebound and put it back for two. His daddy must be like many. They only want points. The MM did his well known hand off, stood and watch while the other player had a nice dunk. We could have kept Z. Harvey over that guy.

[Rufus]

I'm thinking VL and JH with another year in the monster factory could be developed. But the question in my mind is is there anyone on the staff that can develope them. From the lack of progress that we've seen especially in the front court this season I just question the possibility. I agree that MM is portal bound But I'm hoping that McGinnis was redshirted and back next year. OU shows potential at times but then in spurts leaves one just scratching his head just like the other two. Perhaps with the right tutoring he could slow himself down a bit and be a force under the rim. I swear In the 50+ years of watching college ball I've never seen a team that was so dead set on not playing fundamental bball. But bball in general is transforming into a game of snipers today. Steph Curry and has three point shooting prowess probably has a lot to do with that. So with all that said, CWM, when hired said that his teams were going tough, get after it grind it out type of players and this year has been nothing but a bill of goods. Is the players or the coaches I can' t answer that but I' m afraid that the era of a dominating post up center or the typical power forward may be just about played out.

[leo from jersey]

I'm thinking VL and JH with another year in the monster factory could be developed. But the question in my mind is is there anyone on the staff that can develope them. From the lack of progress that we've seen especially in the front court this season I just question the possibility. I agree that MM is portal bound But I'm hoping that McGinnis was redshirted and back next year. OU shows potential at times but then in spurts leaves one just scratching his head just like the other two. Perhaps with the right tutoring he could slow himself down a bit and be a force under the rim. I swear In the 50+ years of watching college ball I've never seen a team that was so dead set on not playing fundamental bball. But bball in general is transforming into a game of snipers today. Steph Curry and has three point shooting prowess probably has a lot to do with that. So with all that said, CWM, when hired said that his teams were going tough, get after it grind it out type of players and this year has been nothing but a bill of goods. Is the players or the coaches I can' t answer that but I' m afraid that the era of a dominating post up center or the typical power forward may be just about played out.

of course I also watch OSU and they have a very good post up game, but the games are being won by a frosh who is becoming perhaps the best in the big. He doesn't really shoot 3s but mid range and quick a power move to the basket. He is really good. The 3 post up players and others in the big are throwback. It is still alive. It is also very much enjoyable to watch them work their man instead of off balanced threes.

[Rufus]

Leo, I watch quite a bit of college bball and Im sure your right that there's some teams that play sound ball. And that is why I don't watch pro ball (one of the reasons) lol! But Im a true UC bearcat fan and so I also don't watch / root for OSU solely for the grudge they continue to hold for losing to us twice for the championship. Talk about sour grapes and superiority complex issues. As a side note, I also don't watch UK bball. I have my own personal feelings about Calipari and why a school would hire him the be their coach that's better that I just keep to myself. But I would enjoy seeing that type of bball at UC again especially as we are headed into the big 12 but it don't look like the current staff isn't conducive to that.