More proof the Big 12 needs to add us!!

[bearcatbret]

Actually, UC played some pretty marquee teams in the 80's. My recollection about those UC teams is that they would play the big teams fairly well in the first half but then would wear down in the second half because lack of depth, they would get injured, then have to play the rest of the season with their second/third strings which then allowed us to lose to the teams left on the schedule that we should have been able to beat. I also believe that we moved to riverfront for a percentage of our games because the NCAA required a certain seating capacity of the home stadium and Nippert did not meet those requirements. We still played a few games at Nippert those years but listed Riverfront as our home.

The links below show that we played Virginia Tech, West Virginia, Auburn, Miami, Penn State.

1986 - http://www.fanbase.com/Cincinnati-Be...-Football-1986
1987 - http://www.fanbase.com/Cincinnati-Be...-Football-1987

[1977 BearCat]

What is not be discussed here is TV ratings. The Big 12 is effectively Southwest Conference 2.0, a conference that died in part because it was primarily a Texas conference and had only 1 true name school, Texas. The Big 12 as now structured has 2 name schools but again, based on population footprint, a Texas conference and it shows in the TV ratings. Look at the ratings for the top ten match-up 2 weeks ago between TCU and KSU. Terrible. This is a problem for the Big 12 not only with Fox/ESPN but for recognition on a national basis.

Rating Viewers Time Away Net


Saturday, November 15
6.4 10.27M 3:30 PM Mississippi St./Alabama CBS
5.3 8.74M 8:00 PM FSU/Miami ABC
3.7 5.73M 12:00 PM Ohio State/Minnesota ABC
2.6 4.61M 7:15 PM Auburn/Georgia ESPN
2.4 4.03M 3:30 PM Nebraska/Wisconsin ABC
1.8 3.00M 3:30 PM Northwestern/Notre Dame NBC
1.3 1.81M 12:00 PM Clemson/Ga. Tech ESPN
1.2 1.87M 10:45 PM Arizona St./Oregon St. ESPN
1.1 1.91M 7:30 PM Texas/Oklahoma State FOX
1.0 1.85M 8:00 PM LSU/Arkansas ESPN2


Saturday, November 8
5.3 9.11M 8:00 PM Alabama/LSU CBS
4.4 7.21M 3:30 PM Texas A&M/Auburn CBS
3.9 6.83M 8:00 PM Ohio State/Michigan St. ABC
3.0 4.67M 3:30 PM Notre Dame/Arizona State ABC
1.9 2.74M 12:00 PM Georgia/Kentucky ESPN
1.6 2.70M 10:30 PM Oregon/Utah ESPN
1.3 2.25M 7:30 PM Kansas St./TCU FOX
1.3 2.05M 12:00 PM Baylor/Oklahoma FS1
1.2 1.91M 6:30 PM Virginia/FSU ESPN

[swilsonsp4]

The links below show that we played Virginia Tech, West Virginia, Auburn, Miami, Penn State.

Aside from Auburn, all of those other teams were independents at the time, which wasn't particularly unusual back then. They had to play each other. UC had ties to both FSU and VT from their days in the Metro for basketball and minor sports.

WV was a name team, but not in the national picture in the 80's. Frank Beamer was just starting to build his program at VT.

In the end, though, UC was usually road fodder when they had to play a power. Penn State and Miami were willing to come here, but not on a 1-1 arrangement.

I went to too many dull performances back then to think that any conference, aside from perhaps the MAC (whom UC had bolted years earlier), would've had any interest.

There was constant chatter among casual fans and a large portion of the faculty to shut down the program, as XU had done after the 1973 season.

Anyway, those days are long past. UC no longer is an outlaw school. We just need to keep winning, draw good crowds and keep our name in the spotlight of the B12 or even the ACC. That's up to TT, Bohn and Ono.

[bearcatbret]

^totally agree with your entire assessment. I was there in the 80's and participated in one of those minor sports so I know Vtech and FSU all too well from those days. The history of the creation of CUSA is interesting because the study concluded was that there would be a shift to mega conferences covering a large geographic footprint. I believe that FSU, Miami, Boston College, VTech were all thought to be part of it but they bolted to other conference affiliations so CUSA got a bunch of left overs.

[longtimefan]

The academics were mediocre (at best) in most of the colleges (except DAAP, Engineering and Medicine).

Your assertion is marginally correct (at best). You must remember that before UC became a full state university in 1976 the admission standards were much higher. You also forgot to mention stellar programs in Nursing or CCM for example. The year I entered CCM, ninety-percent of the applications were rejected. Like any large school in an urban setting UC had an obligation to be an entry point for those who were not top ten percent of their respective classes, but those students would typically start in one of the two year colleges and prove themselves before they could be admitted to the elite programs on campus. The difference between a public urban school and a private one is that those students were not allowed into the other schools at all. You can not label UC an "outlaw program" because their mission was larger than some of the private schools. I personally know a well known Cincinnati attorney who started out in the University College at UC and then worked his butt off to graduate with honors in history and attend Law School. I guess UC was a rogue program because he got in.

When people diss UC and other similar institutions because they serve a larger population it really gets me angry, because nothing is further from the truth. And one more side note, a friend of my daughter applied to CCM to study voice a few years ago, and after UC turned her down she was accepted to that rogue program up north, the University of Michigan.

[sabre86]

Well said.

Your assertion is marginally correct (at best). You must remember that before UC became a full state university in 1976 the admission standards were much higher. You also forgot to mention stellar programs in Nursing or CCM for example. The year I entered CCM, ninety-percent of the applications were rejected. Like any large school in an urban setting UC had an obligation to be an entry point for those who were not top ten percent of their respective classes, but those students would typically start in one of the two year colleges and prove themselves before they could be admitted to the elite programs on campus. The difference between a public urban school and a private one is that those students were not allowed into the other schools at all. You can not label UC an "outlaw program" because their mission was larger than some of the private schools. I personally know a well known Cincinnati attorney who started out in the University College at UC and then worked his butt off to graduate with honors in history and attend Law School. I guess UC was a rogue program because he got in.

When people diss UC and other similar institutions because they serve a larger population it really gets me angry, because nothing is further from the truth. And one more side note, a friend of my daughter applied to CCM to study voice a few years ago, and after UC turned her down she was accepted to that rogue program up north, the University of Michigan.

[cmm27]

Based on comments from athletic director Bohn I would say things are going on behind the curtain. I would say the largest stumbling block for UC to getting into another conference right now is the lack of a second school too take with them. Neither BYU or UConn seem to do it for anybody.

[bearcatbret]

It is not going to be BYU or UConn. It is about TV markets and that is a Florida School.

[bearcattom]

Based on comments from athletic director Bohn I would say things are going on behind the curtain. I would say the largest stumbling block for UC to getting into another conference right now is the lack of a second school too take with them. Neither BYU or UConn seem to do it for anybody.

Could you elaborate on Bohn's comments? Thank you for the insight.

[swilsonsp4]

Your assertion is marginally correct (at best). You must remember that before UC became a full state university in 1976 the admission standards were much higher. You also forgot to mention stellar programs in Nursing or CCM for example. The year I entered CCM, ninety-percent of the applications were rejected. Like any large school in an urban setting UC had an obligation to be an entry point for those who were not top ten percent of their respective classes, but those students would typically start in one of the two year colleges and prove themselves before they could be admitted to the elite programs on campus. The difference between a public urban school and a private one is that those students were not allowed into the other schools at all. You can not label UC an "outlaw program" because their mission was larger than some of the private schools. I personally know a well known Cincinnati attorney who started out in the University College at UC and then worked his butt off to graduate with honors in history and attend Law School. I guess UC was a rogue program because he got in.

When people diss UC and other similar institutions because they serve a larger population it really gets me angry, because nothing is further from the truth. And one more side note, a friend of my daughter applied to CCM to study voice a few years ago, and after UC turned her down she was accepted to that rogue program up north, the University of Michigan.

I apparently didn't express myself precisely. UC was perceived as an outlaw school, just as Memphis and UofL were. The academics generally were not considered to be on par with the schools of the Big 10 or the MAC. Perceptions become "reality" when broadcast enough.

We were seen as cheaters on the athletics side, with probation assessed in both football and basketball that crippled both programs for more than a decade. Add to that insufficient facilities in the "arms war" of athletics and UC fell behind. The school tried to rectify that with The Shoe and it worked for awhile, especially as the basketball program skyrocketed back into national prominence. Money was cobbled together for Varsity Village and now for Nippert and apparently for 5th/3rd. Meanwhile, other state universities have sugar daddies who bless them with millions. (See Oregon and Okie State.)

My main point is that none of the major conferences were interested in what they perceived to be second-class citizens. So, we joined other similar institutions to form the Metro, then the Great Midwest and, finally, C-USA, bouncing around like a cork in the waves. It wasn't until the Big East had to refill its ranks that we finally got a break. Now, look at that broken institution. We're back in C-USA Plus (or Marginally Plus).

The difference now is that UC is viewed differently nationally, both academically and in sports. The school is moving forward. The administration is very athletics favorable and active. There is a pause in conference realignments at present, so it may be as frustrating now as then. We, as fans, must be patient for another break, such as the Big East offered. But, the patience should be accompanied by trust that Ono and Bohn make sure we're noticed, then make the jump when offered.

[Lobot]

This is related to LHN.

--"The contract can be terminated if the university can not meet ESPN and the network's demand of 200+ live sporting events per year, and included in that is most likely its 2+ live football games. Either Texas makes available what ESPN wants or they back out. How does that impact relations within the Big XII? Also, if anything legal changes regarding new rules say made by the NCAA making the obligations to fulfill the contract "impractical", either party will have the right to terminate the contract giving a 30 day notice. "--

The above is important because ESPN is losing money on LHN even after adding DISH, DirectTV and AT&T markets. They tried to bundle it with SECN when they were adding partners for the SECN and failed because no partners wanted to pay the carriage fees outside of Texas markets.

ESPN canceling this contract would be the first shoe to drop in the Big12's TV deals expiring and would remove a major roadblock to the rest of the Big12's expansion wishes. Based on what I've read, the school with the most amount of dissatisfaction with the current alignment is Oklahoma.

Some of this info was paraphrased from a realignment thread on Landthieves.com

[bearcattom]

This is related to LHN.

--"The contract can be terminated if the university can not meet ESPN and the network's demand of 200+ live sporting events per year, and included in that is most likely its 2+ live football games. Either Texas makes available what ESPN wants or they back out. How does that impact relations within the Big XII? Also, if anything legal changes regarding new rules say made by the NCAA making the obligations to fulfill the contract "impractical", either party will have the right to terminate the contract giving a 30 day notice. "--

The above is important because ESPN is losing money on LHN even after adding DISH, DirectTV and AT&T markets. They tried to bundle it with SECN when they were adding partners for the SECN and failed because no partners wanted to pay the carriage fees outside of Texas markets.

ESPN canceling this contract would be the first shoe to drop in the Big12's TV deals expiring and would remove a major roadblock to the rest of the Big12's expansion wishes. Based on what I've read, the school with the most amount of dissatisfaction with the current alignment is Oklahoma.

Some of this info was paraphrased from a realignment thread on Landthieves.com

I work in TV. ESPN is no longer hiring for the LHN based in Austin. Bowlsby sees the LHN as a blocker to launching a Big 12 media property.

I expect at some point...Texas & Oklahoma to crush the B12 and move to the SEC. These schools add significantly to the viewership value of the SEC..enough to pump the $/school to possibly $40-50M.

That opens the door for UC, Boise State, BYU, and SMU (yes, I said SMU).

[bobestes]

Struggling to understand how wandering around the great plains to play the likes of Iowa State, Kansas State and TCU is going to be much better than our present situation.

I work in TV. ESPN is no longer hiring for the LHN based in Austin. Bowlsby sees the LHN as a blocker to launching a Big 12 media property.

I expect at some point...Texas & Oklahoma to crush the B12 and move to the SEC. These schools add significantly to the viewership value of the SEC..enough to pump the $/school to possibly $40-50M.

That opens the door for UC, Boise State, BYU, and SMU (yes, I said SMU).

[bearcattom]

Struggling to understand how wandering around the great plains to play the likes of Iowa State, Kansas State and TCU is going to be much better than our present situation.

Yep...such is the pecking order I guess.

[cmm27]

Struggling to understand how wandering around the great plains to play the likes of Iowa State, Kansas State and TCU is going to be much better than our present situation.

That scenario would likely see UC to the ACC as the other conferences would race to get to 16 teams well.