Expansion Thread 2023

[bearcatbret]

^^Chewbacca, one thing to keep an eye on is that the PAC may have to remain intact and under that name in order to collect monies due to them from past tourneys etc. I read that all of the MWC may join the PAC in order to keep the owed monies within the PAC. I know, it all sounds ludicrous.

[Lobot]

Do we have anyone on the board who is in advertising or TV? We used to have a few. Ad sales are the thing that is driving this mess and by extension Fox and ESPN.

Advertising also drives free social media.

So the business 101 question is, when is it overkill and how do we rein it in a bit without legal implications. It’s kinda ruining things particularly with college sports. It almost reminds me of a Black Mirror episode in Season 1

This isn’t just a sports thing it’s a societal issue.

Consider the can of worms open.

[bearcatbret]

Don't hold your breath but could the PAC 4 be absorbed by the AAC? Well, at least it is $1M to $2M more a year over the Mountain West. College football realignment: G5 conference willing to throw lifeline to Pac-12 schools (msn.com)

[bearcatbret]

McMurphy reported that all PAC schools were looking at the Big 12 if they would leave out OSU and WSU. CFB Insider Suggests A PAC 12 President Attempted To Conspire Against 2 Rivals In Realignment (msn.com)
Speculations are that the big brothers in Oregon and Washington were the ones trying to keep OSU and WSU out.

[Lobot]

McMurphy now reporting that the Big 12 is done expanding. No PAC 4 teams or SDSU are incoming.

[Chewbacca2099]

If ACC takes Stanford/Cal then yes we are done. This is all driven by ESPN wanting late night slots since they don't have any currently. If ACC doesn't take those 2 they might come back to the Big12 and tell us to expand again

[GoBearcats31]

Thamel -- ACC Presidents met this morning for exploratory call on Cal and Stanford. As expected, no vote was taken. The league is “still evaluating” the potential decision.

[red_n_black_attack]

If ACC takes Stanford/Cal then yes we are done. This is all driven by ESPN wanting late night slots since they don't have any currently. If ACC doesn't take those 2 they might come back to the Big12 and tell us to expand again

If we go to 20 with the Pac4, that leaves very little room for ACC teams in 6-8 years or less.

[leeraymond]

WHERE DOES IT END? HOW MUCH MONEY IS ENOUGH (Florida State, UCLA, and USC)? WHAT GOOD IS THE NCAA? Look at how the NCAA has let this conference realignment thing to get TOTALLY out of control. Every big-time school in the country now wants in on the money. They feel that they will miss out on the big bucks if they are not associated with the SEC, B10, BIG XII, etc. No one is thinking about the pressure that the conference travel schedules will put on the student-athletes. A lot of these schools will have to fly hundreds and maybe thousands of miles to get to their next conference game. I predict that as fans, we might see the quality of the games go down because of tired and jet-lagged athletes. Look at what has happened to poor West Virginia since it has joined the BIG XII. Both basketball and football ARE struggling. Check out the football conference stats since 2012-13: 46-52 (losing record since joining BIG XII). Here are the basketball conference stats since 2012-13: 97-100 (losing record since it joined the BIG XII). This will perhaps be the fate of many of these presently winning schools when they have to deal with the extreme travel schedules of these new leagues. I hope that UC does not have a similar fate.

The NCAA should have put a stop to this CRAZY conference realignment years ago. However, the NCAA is composed of the very schools that feel as though they need more money. The real beauty of college sports is in its regional connections. I would much rather see a Michigan-Ohio State game than a Ohio State-UCLA game. Other fans may feel differently. Also, with conferences having more regional connections, the parents, friends, and fans of the athletes and the universities can attend games with greater ease and without spending thousands of dollars flying all over the %^$#@#% country to see their kid play. Additionally, TV money may also be driving these crazy college realignments. That is just my thought without any evidence to support that statement.

Maybe, just maybe, one day we can get back to college conferences that make sense for the athletes, families, friends, and fans.

[bearcatbret]

Everyone seems to be concerned about the travel and how it will affect the student-athlete now that it is UCLA, Cal, Washington, Oregon making the travels. This has been going on for decades with Conference USA and the AAC. Nobody seemed to care about it when it was only low recognition colleges with low TV deals.

[Lobot]

ACC is vetting SMU as tag along for Stanford and Cal. I’m guessing they are assuming they’ll lose FSU?

[bearcatbret]

ACC is vetting SMU as tag along for Stanford and Cal. I’m guessing they are assuming they’ll lose FSU?

Are they also vetting SDSU in case FSU does not leave? Do they want the Dallas/TX market more than the Southern California market? Does SMU meet their grades better than SDSU? I think that it is totally ridiculous that the ACC is looking at the PAC 4 to throw them a lifeline unless ESPN wants the west coast after dark market. A question for you, if the ACC expands, does that provide an escape path for FSU and Clemson?

[red_n_black_attack]

Are they also vetting SDSU in case FSU does not leave? Do they want the Dallas/TX market more than the Southern California market? Does SMU meet their grades better than SDSU? I think that it is totally ridiculous that the ACC is looking at the PAC 4 to throw them a lifeline unless ESPN wants the west coast after dark market. A question for you, if the ACC expands, does that provide an escape path for FSU and Clemson?

If they expand will they need to sign a new GoR and tv contract or just the new schools? I don't believe existing schools would get an opt out option or need to re-sign the GoR. If this does provide an out to FSU, many teams will follow FSU and Clemson. The past two weeks have been huge in shaping end game for realignment, but this could trigger a move to three 20 team conferences way sooner than expected.

P.S. - you are correct, ESPN would rather have the Pac4 in the ACC at "discounted" ACC contract rates than in the Big 12.

[Lobot]

Jon Wilner just posted an article that said the PAC had invites out to SMU and SDSU and the whole thing collapsed on them due to Oregon and Washington leaving.

I’m seeing a lot of stuff about the PAC brand continuing by taking the existing 4 and adding SMU, SDSU, Fresno St and Boise St. first, and possibly UNLV and Colorado St. to get to 10.

Also saw some rumblings Re: Gonzaga in basketball + 1 more.

Someone stated earlier that ESPN does want late night inventory because they currently don’t have any games slotted there with the new B1G jumping ship on them.

[Lobot]

WHERE DOES IT END? HOW MUCH MONEY IS ENOUGH (Florida State, UCLA, and USC)? WHAT GOOD IS THE NCAA? Look at how the NCAA has let this conference realignment thing to get TOTALLY out of control.

<snip>

The NCAA should have put a stop to this CRAZY conference realignment years ago. However, the NCAA is composed of the very schools that feel as though they need more money. The real beauty of college sports is in its regional connections. I would much rather see a Michigan-Ohio State game than a Ohio State-UCLA game. Other fans may feel differently. Also, with conferences having more regional connections, the parents, friends, and fans of the athletes and the universities can attend games with greater ease and without spending thousands of dollars flying all over the %^$#@#% country to see their kid play. Additionally, TV money may also be driving these crazy college realignments. That is just my thought without any evidence to support that statement.

Maybe, just maybe, one day we can get back to college conferences that make sense for the athletes, families, friends, and fans.

I feel you on this but one thing I wanted to point out here is that NCAA is toothless right now. They’re having a hard doing anything to member schools and athletes without ending up in court. When they get to court, they lose.

What we might see here is FBS football consolidating to 4 super leagues and ditching the NCAA as an oversight body completely. The remaining FBS schools in the MAC, AAC, CUSA, MWC and Sun Belt and maybe the even the PAC, will be playing for a different championship.

Greg Sankey yesterday called for reevaluation the CFP expansion framework because nothing is the same as it was when that agreement was reached.

It’s a damn good thing we made it to the Big XII before all this went down.