More proof the Big 12 needs to add us!!

[bearcatgary]

BYU and Boise do not bring the TV market nor the recruiting grounds that an expansion needs.

Although it's a secondary consideration, UC and Memphis would arguably make the B12 the 2nd best basketball conference (perhaps the best every few years).

To me, it's a no-brainer to add UC and BYU/Memphis and have been posting this on message boards all day long....

--Gary

[bobestes]

If the big 12 thought they could make more money by adding UC and/or another school, they would have done it by now. Not trying to be Debbie Downer, just being realistic about where we stand in the current landscape.

Don't be shocked if they magically end up with a championship game with 10 schools. If that happens, we may as well get extra comfy with the AAC.

[London 'Cat]

If the big 12 thought they could make more money by adding UC and/or another school, they would have done it by now. Not trying to be Debbie Downer, just being realistic about where we stand in the current landscape.

Don't be shocked if they magically end up with a championship game with 10 schools. If that happens, we may as well get extra comfy with the AAC.

Agreed. With the autonomy granted the P5 conferences, why does the NCAA rule about conference championship games even matter? If they can make their own rules, then they should be able to say that ten teams in a conference is enough for a conference championship game. Maybe I am missing something in the autonomy analysis?

[Lobot]

Agreed. With the autonomy granted the P5 conferences, why does the NCAA rule about conference championship games even matter? If they can make their own rules, then they should be able to say that ten teams in a conference is enough for a conference championship game. Maybe I am missing something in the autonomy analysis?

You're not missing anything. The only thing I can add is that the Big12 and ACC have a championship game waiver already pending with the NCAA that is supposed to be ruled on in the next 6 months. That may not even matter anymore but at the time it was filed, P5 autonomy had not happened yet. It will be interesting to see if the Big12 waits on that or just goes over the NCAA's head and directly to the other P5s with this.

I have a plethora of articles linked in my twitter timeline which I'll try and bring over here later today. If you want to browse my totally random stream of conciousness from last night, it's http://www.twitter.com/Lobotc2dfw

[Brian H.]

You're not missing anything. The only thing I can add is that the Big12 and ACC have a championship game waiver already pending with the NCAA that is supposed to be ruled on in the next 6 months. That may not even matter anymore but at the time it was filed, P5 autonomy had not happened yet. It will be interesting to see if the Big12 waits on that or just goes over the NCAA's head and directly to the other P5s with this.

I have a plethora of articles linked in my twitter timeline which I'll try and bring over here later today. If you want to browse my totally random stream of conciousness from last night, it's http://www.twitter.com/Lobotc2dfw

My understanding is that even if they take it straight to the P5 they think it won't pass. You need 3 out of 5 to say yes and you can bet the B1G, SEC and PAC aren't going to say yes to help out the B12.

[bearcatgary]

If the big 12 thought they could make more money by adding UC and/or another school, they would have done it by now. Not trying to be Debbie Downer, just being realistic about where we stand in the current landscape.

Don't be shocked if they magically end up with a championship game with 10 schools. If that happens, we may as well get extra comfy with the AAC.

This should be a glaring example that there are intangibles that cannot be calculated on a spreadsheet and should be considered with regards to expansion. Nobody could have predicted that not having a championship game would cost the B12 a potential NC as well as the $10's of millions of dollars that come with it.

Another intangible better positioning themselves for the next inevitable wave of expansion. The BIG, P12 and SEC will be calling soon. Remember that the B12 almost collapsed during the last round.

What other intangibles are lurking out there? Hopefully the current debacle is bringing these things to the table and B12 will start thinking proactively instead of just focusing on next month's bottom line.

--Gary

[richard k.]

My understanding is that even if they take it straight to the P5 they think it won't pass. You need 3 out of 5 to say yes and you can bet the B1G, SEC and PAC aren't going to say yes to help out the B12.

Yup - based on what happened over this past weekend why would ANY of the other 4 powers tell the Big 12 they can have a playoff with only 10 teams. My guess is the other 4 sit back and hope the Big 12 NEVER expands.

[Lobot]

Yup - based on what happened over this past weekend why would ANY of the other 4 powers tell the Big 12 they can have a playoff with only 10 teams. My guess is the other 4 sit back and hope the Big 12 NEVER expands.

Right on the money Richard. If you think the other P5 schools are going to vote in favor of a waiver, forget it. They want to see the Big 12 disband so they can poach the good teams.

[coach]

My memory is one or two of the conferences have applied for that waiver before and were turned down. Can't recall which one, but i know it has been thru before.

[red_n_black_attack]

Right on the money Richard. If you think the other P5 schools are going to vote in favor of a waiver, forget it. They want to see the Big 12 disband so they can poach the good teams.

How tight is that OU/UT bond? I only ask because those are two schools that could anchor any conference, including keeping the Big 12 intact.

I am not a fan of conferences expanding to 16 teams leaving only 4 super power conference. I had feared this would happen in the past; however, two things happened to change my mind. First, Texas and OU opted not to join the Pac-10 and then the ACC signed GOR. We have seen the decline of Big East at the hands of ESPN and ESPN would love nothing better than to tear down the Big 12.

As far as I can see, the Big 12 will survive. I could be wrong...I never thought Nebraska to the B1G would happen either.

[red_n_black_attack]

Right on the money Richard. If you think the other P5 schools are going to vote in favor of a waiver, forget it. They want to see the Big 12 disband so they can poach the good teams.

How tight is that OU/UT bond? I only ask because those are the two schools that could anchor any conference, including keeping the Big 12 intact.

I had feared conferences expanding to 16 teams leaving only 4 super power conferences would happen in the past; however, two things happened to change my mind. First, Texas and OU opted not to join the Pac-10 and then the ACC signed GOR. We have seen the decline of Big East at the hands of ESPN and ESPN would love nothing better than to tear down the Big 12.

As far as I can see, the Big 12 will survive. I could be wrong...I never thought Nebraska to the B1G would happen either.

[coach]

There's texas, and then everybody else in the big12. Ou obviously gets thrown in because of their tradition, but it's not an equal share of anything. However, the Longhorn network has not fared as expected so it's kind of a wild card right now.

[bearcatbret]

The 16 team super conference is interesting because prior to Conference USA, those independents commissioned a study and the results of that study was that super conferences were the future. Unfortunately, before those teams could form, Miami, FSU and VTech joined the ACC and Conference USA was left with mediocre teams.

I know someone here posted that article some time back and I wish that I could find it. I would seem that some consultant may have been correct but was only 15 years ahead of the time.

[longtimefan]

There's texas, and then everybody else in the big12. Ou obviously gets thrown in because of their tradition, but it's not an equal share of anything. However, the Longhorn network has not fared as expected so it's kind of a wild card right now.

This is the type of scenario that worries me regarding a possible move to the Big 12. As we saw in the old BE, conference strength rests to some degree on how much the members have in common, and how committed they are to each other. In the case of the Big East, it was obvious for some time that it would have to expand football to survive, yet time after time expansion ideas were killed by the small basketball only schools. They were afraid to let the football schools make up the majority of the members, which is how DePaul got an invite though they were clearly undeserving. When the Big East failed to expand football, it was just a matter of time until it fell apart. Five of the football schools eventually bolted, and the bb schools left to form a new league but not before buying the Big East name to take with them. (In retrospect I do not think we should have sold them the Big East name, even though it was worthless in football.)

My fear is that some version of the same thing may happen in the Big 12 at some point. Are Texas and Oklahoma completely on board with this league, and would all members share the same goals and ambitions? If not another round of poaching could occur in the future. That being said, I would still accept the invite to the Big 12 should it arrive, the geography is not as good for us as the ACC would be, but it is no worse than the old Missouri Valley Conference where we thrived and won national championships in basketball.

[coach]

That could happen but at least u are a p5 member at that point. Remnants greater than current aac and payout as well.